this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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Piracy

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[–] Spaghetti_Hitchens@kbin.social 180 points 1 year ago (31 children)

Indie solo video game dev here.

I am okay with gamers "requisitioning" games if they truly can't afford it. While it is my livelihood, it's also my attempt at art and I want people to enjoy it. I even plan on releasing a safe cracked copy for the next game.

If you pirate a game, there are ways to help support us starving devs if you like the game.

  1. Spread the word far and wide that you like the game. A little effort on your part can save us marketing budget and trigger new sales.

  2. In the future if you have the financial ability, buy a legit key on sale. Even at 75%+ discount it helps.

But please don't cost us additional money. It costs time and money to process chargebacks triggered by the key resellers selling keys procurred with stolen credit cards.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unless you plan on implementing any other stronger DRM than the steam provided one. I wouldn't bother releasing a safe version.

It's brutally simple to crack steam drm on your own. You just need the clean files from cs.rin.ru/forum or something.

Unsafe cracks will be published elsewhere anyways if your game is popular enough.

I suggest you just don't add any DRM at all.

[–] NecessaryWeevil@feddit.nl 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Running files you downloaded from a Russian website, what could possibly go wrong

[–] lud@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

cs.rin.ru is very well regarded in the piracy community and quite a few cracks originate there. You can also learn how to crack yourself on that site.

[–] emberwit@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

how to crack yourself

now you got my attention

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[–] Seathru 96 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

NiX:

I love you guys and postal series, but I’m not made of money, if I can get a game for cheaper I’d rather pay less than more.

Running With Scissors:

Which is why we’re telling you to pirate our games instead of paying a scammer who will cost us money and probably even get your key revoked Our games are cheap right now through official sites. Is saving a few cents worth lowering the chances for releasing another POSTAL game?

NiX:

Isn’t pirating illegal? You want your fans get fines and shit? Now they are on sale so I might pick up some but normally i still rather get the game of g2a for cheaper

Running With Scissors:

You can’t get fines if the owners of the IP give you permission to download. Just know that by getting on G2A, we not only get no money, we also have to pay for the chargeback, that’s the core of the problem and it means no new games in the future and no more RWS

Edit: fixed formatting.

[–] NateSwift 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d be super interested in reading the full interview if you could point me to it? I’m not familiar with the “NiX” acronym

[–] Seathru 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It was part of a twitter thread that I'm too much of a luddite to figure out how to link. Last comment: https://twitter.com/RWSstudios/status/1671832971601408000#m

[–] NateSwift 5 points 1 year ago

I thought it was a news outlet! I’ve know that G2A and the like were “not good” but didn’t have any insight why and am definitely going to look into this more. Thanks for the link!

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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 year ago

The old school pirate philosophy. Pirate the game. If you like the game, buy it. If you loved it, pay full price. The best games are being released by indie devs that could use the money.

[–] GreenMario@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I wonder where sites like GreenManGaming, Fanatical, Humble and IndieGala fit into the mix as I understand it are legit keysellers?

[–] EddyBot@feddit.de 30 points 1 year ago

the listed ones have contracts with publisher to get legit keys where the developer gets it share too

[–] HiDiddlyDoodlyHo 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

At a legitimate website, the developer(s) and publisher(s) make money for each key purchased and every key is legal to own, so there is little chance of a key being revoked and your account banned on your chosen storefront. At a grey market seller like G2A, they can sometimes get their keys illegally (credit card theft, stolen accounts, etc.). So because GMG, Fanatical, Humble, IndiaGala, etc. are all legitimate resellers, they buy their keys directly from the source (usually the publisher or storefront where they are redeemed, but that's just my guess). Apologies if that's not what you were asking.

[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wonder if Humble Bundle has any stance on the giveaways people do with their unused Humble Choice keys

[–] Seathru 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So perfectly fine in the common case where people give keys away for free.

Like this one.

THE LONG DARK is a thoughtful, exploration-survival experience that challenges solo players to think for themselves as they explore an expansive frozen wilderness in the aftermath of a geomagnetic disaster. There are no zombies -- only you, the cold, and all the threats Mother Nature can muster.

Pee See Pee Aych En - Nine Why Ay Eee Double You - Vee Eight Pee Em Vee

Please don't take it unless you actually want to play it.

[–] Seathru 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah exactly like that. Damn that's a good one.

Here's another: Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy

Ex Seven Pee Ex Jay - Four Gee Bee Gee Bee - Too In Eye Eee Tee

[–] IGuessThisIsForNSFW@yiffit.net 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At first I thought I was having a stroke, then I realized it was a key. If I may ask, why spell everything out instead of just posting a copy and paste able code? Only thing I could come up with was to prevent bots from scraping codes out of comments, but I think it would still be pretty easy to parse it into a regular game code.

[–] Seathru 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's probably not as bad here; But if you posted a game code on reddit without some kind of obfuscation, a bot would grab it in seconds. I was mostly just copying the person I was replying to.

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[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

Those are all official seller stores.

[–] Skedule@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

ELI5, Why are resellers bad? Do they acquire the keys in a shady way?

[–] resurge@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Here's a dev explaining it: https://lemmy.ml/comment/2618947

Apparently they do chargebacks, which costs the gamedevs money.
This is something that should have been in the opening post.
It explains why using these sites actually causes harm.
Instead of getting a game at a reduced rate without harming the dev much (just losing a sale) you're actually harming the dev.

This is something I didn't know and now I'll look more at discounted games on official platforms instead of these key sites.

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[–] Noughmad@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes.

They steal a credit card, buy the game with it, and sell the game. Then the owner of the credit card (or the credit card issuer) discovers this and demands a refund from the game seller. Processing this refund requires extra work and additional money from the game seller.

For a longer explanation, with successful results, you can read https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-303 .

[–] abraxas@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I sorta blame big media companies for this. They have been trying to kill used movie/game sales for decades, moving to these (should be illegal) licensing models, etc. In doing that, they have failed to allow an infrastructure to form that would keep used or third-party purchases "legit" so you end up with sites that have no choice but to live in the grey area, even cdkeys.com that (allegedly) sources their keys 100% first-party legitimately.

Ultimately, credit card fraud will always be a risk. Someone installed a barcode copier on a local gas station machine a while back, and they bought 5 PS4s on it before the Bank got wise. It's a little easier in other countries because there's no physical shipping to deal with, but it's not really creating the market. As a defrauded individual, you just can't chargeback a playstation that was sold anonymously on ebay and already shipped.

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[–] Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What shits me off is the number of people who defend these key reselling sites.

I've been utterly lambasted for likening kinguin with G2A in the past. Like really? Their arguments literally fall apart with a small amount of scrutiny, but thet chalk it up to "they say they aren't like other resellers so they aren't" FFS you literally cannot prove that and that's my point. And that's why you DO NOT TRUST THESE SITES.

It's really fucking common in YouTube comments specifically. Especially with youtubers who have been sponsored by these sites in the past.

I have literally unsubbed from youtubers that have advertised these stinkers, the problem is when the likes of MrBeast starts advertising it, people start to think that it's ok.

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[–] XLRV@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago
[–] dan@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I do not understand why publishers don’t cancel the keys. Why do they allow that parasitic industry to exist? Surely they know which key corresponds to a chargeback?

[–] ChronosWing@lemmy.zip 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don't think the majority of those keys are from stolen credit cards. A lot of them are just purchased in countries where the game is extremely cheap then resold for a profit.

[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah the devs are still making their money. Just not the big first world money they want.

[–] FrederikNJS@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

The indie dev behind Factorio spoke out about the grey market resellers in their blog. They talked about G2A, where they had received a bunch of fraudulent purchases, and had to pay fines to the credit card processor for each chargeback... Effectively making reseller sales cost the developer money instead of earning it. Here's the 4 blog posts talking about the issue.

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-171

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-303

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-304

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-348

[–] dan@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ok. So. That doesn’t seem so bad to me.

[–] also_kai@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It pushes the price of games up in countries where the median income is a small fraction of places like the US. So it either takes away the gaming experience or encourages piracy from people who would have loved to support the developers and enjoy the game that way.

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[–] Gsus4@feddit.nl 12 points 1 year ago

Well, that makes me feel marginally better for never having bought keys in gray market sites like my friend who doesn't pirate because he's afraid of viruses, but then does that to get "amazing discounts".

[–] krnl386@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's the last one from the top row? The Pirate Bay? :)

[–] cnnrduncan 14 points 1 year ago

It's not the Pirate Bay logo so my bet would be that it's representing internet piracy as a general concept!

[–] twistedtxb@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Eneba is selling pirated keys?

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

How does g2a even work? I've bought a few keys there before and they worked. I assume these keys were given to someone from like a promo or something then they just resell it?

[–] abraxas@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

They let people resell keys "no questions asked" (it reduces their liability to not ask questions). Some percent of the resellers they host use stolen credit cards to sell at a loss, and nobody knows what percent. It's probably depressingly high, but (likely) still <50%.

Some percent of the resellers just buys games on sale, or in a cheap country to resell to expensive countries. It's not uncommon when a game has a plummet sale (a $70 black friday sale for $20) that thousands of copies of the game show up for $30-40 on G2A as soon as the sale ends. Those are (generally) not in any way related to stolen credit cards.

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