"climbed to the top of the food chain." dude, you didn't climb anywhere. If we would drop you in the middle of Siberia with 50km to the next road, you would be dead in about 5 days and eaten by something.
this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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An online space for the vegans of Lemmy.
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I'm glad I'm not that kind of omnivore.
I'll just straight up say I love the way meat tastes.
Also, arguments about what people eat and why almost never come up.
Why do you like hurting animals? Are you a psychopath?
Raised meat animals and hunted for roughly half my life. Coming from that background, I absolutely do not like to see animals suffer. Quick and clean kills. Minimal pain.
Raised poultry for both meat and eggs. When the broilers were ready for slaughter, it was a quick chop of an axe and done.
I've shot several deer over the years. Most dropped dead right on the spot. Only one had to be shot a second time, and it sucked to do. But also overpopulation/starving/eaten alive is objectively worse.
All that said, I fucking LOATHE the modern meat industry. I try and get my meat and eggs from local co-ops or people I know. Locally raised and not in cramped sheds. The butcher is smaller and not just a streamlined kill chute. I try to avoid the big corporate food market when I can.
All that said, it's difficult to explain how I see an animal as food. I know it's a living, breathing thing, but also, it's being raised for food. That's its purpose. I love meat, the way it tastes, and will continue to eat it for the rest of my life.
I'm not trying to convince you anything, just explaining my point of view.
Do I like hurting animals? No.
Am I a psychopath? Don't know. Never been examined.
And what again are you doing in a vegan community then? Why are you so desperate to be heard? We're not here to discuss your "food" choices or moral superiority or why you think it's okay to kill innocent, sentient beings and eat their fucking corpses. Because we already discuss that stuff irl every. single. day. We're here to have some fun with like-minded people and not be reminded of the constant vystopia we're living still in. You're interrupting.
Not a minute ago I saw another post about a study showing how more eco friendly a vegan diet is. I wasn't surprised, but my first thought was I'd like to learn more vegetarian or vegan food, but I wish there were more vegans not as self-righteous about it.
The silent ones I can't ask because I didn't know they're vegan, and the loud ones are such a turn off. I'm not against eating meat, but I am very against being cruel to animals. I'm also a hunter and I pass up any questionable opportunity. I've also gotten kinda anti-pet, which doesn't seem to bother most vegans, but I don't judge other people, it's my personal opinion. We all do things others didn't agree with, but they really hurt their cause sometimes.
This obviously doesn't apply to all veggies and vegans, but some of you really deter people who would like to learn more. I wish the others would slap down this behavior more like if you heard a friend making inappropriate jokes.
Tone-policing other vegans is time that could be better spent having conversations with carnists. If somebody has a better way of changing hearts and minds, there's no better way to convince others than to demonstrate it.
Look up Earthling Ed on YouTube. He's very kind, rational, and patient. I think that vegans should try to be more like him, but it's very difficult, and I'm pretty far from that myself. I understand why some vegans get upset, because it's an emotional topic.
I'm sure it is frustrating to deal with people challenging your beliefs constantly. It's easier for me to avoid grumpy vegans that is for you to avoid meat eaters who don't want to understand you. I used to say stupid things until I learned more. But it was heard to find someone who was willing to inform without any attacking. Forcing change on people seldom works.
I'll check out Earthing Ed. I do sincerely want to learn more. I didn't need to be convinced of the ethics, because we aren't miles apart there. I just want yummy recipes. I followed r/eatcheapandvegan and got good things off there and want to do the same here. I don't need people to kiss my butt or guilt me to win me over, just show me a tasty alternative.
It can get emotional, but it doesn't have to. I thank you for your response.
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Preaches to you about how preachy vegans are
While definitely not a valid reason to dismiss veganism, in my experience, I can understand why that stereotype exists. Still, it’s just a stereotype, and omnivores need to remain open minded and acknowledge it as such.
"Vegans are preachy" isn't an argument. It's a dodge to avoid talking about the real issues. When people were protesting the Yulin Dog Meat Festival, nobody was saying "These anti-dog-meat-eaters are too preachy! Maybe if they were more polite, they would change more minds."
Yup. It’s not an argument. It’s an attempt to derail the conversation, and/or make the vegan angry so they can say “ah ha! I knew you were irrational!” and then walk away feeling superior.
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These are all excellent examples.
I'll add one that hopefully is not as bad as those:
Being vegan is hard. I am not sure I'm up to the task
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One might argue that eating animals is justified because humans are not different from other animals, and there are plenty of predatory species out there.
No other species engages in factory farming, though…
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Honestly, I've just accepted, that animals are going to suffer for me to eat them. Now I'd like it, if they could lead happy lifes before I do so. But that is sadly not the world we live in.
Sure, but why eat them?
Why not? There's many benefits.
You already said that they suffer. Isn't that a good reason to not do it? I assume you wouldn't want somebody to kill and eat you, either.
Well yes but I a) ascribe to most animals a lower level of consciousness to humans and b) am very biased when it comes to that in as I don't want for anyone or anything to kill me.
Genuine question, what benefits do you mean? On the health side - since I went vegan + aiming for whole food plant-based, I've been the healthiest I've ever been. I wasn't even anticipating it, but I've lost a great amount of weight without trying and have more energy than ever. Definitely has cemented the switch as one of the best life decisions I've ever made.
I think the book How Not To Die by Dr. Michael Greger explains really well why. It discusses how animal-derived foods straight up are not good for you nutritionally. It also explains the health benefits of various plant-based foods in preventing different illnesses and supporting your immune system. I recommend it.
greger is a quack
...says no credible source
The more meat you eat, THE SOONER YOU DIE.
The more meat you eat, THE MORE MAJOR DISEASES YOU EXPERIENCE BEFORE YOU DIE.
The more meat you eat, THE MORE OF OUR COMMUNAL ENVIRONMENT IS DESTROYED.
You really have to be sticking your head in the ground to ask, "why not?" Like literal psychological denialism. Just look: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=meat+%22all+cause+mortality%22
Why are we suddenly calling poeple omnivore/carnivore/herbivores? Why not just: Vegan Average Person Dad at the barbecue
People who post carnist denialism, apologia, or trolling to !veganism@lemmy.ca get banned. Hell, I'm going to ban a bunch of the bad posters from !vegan@lemmy.ml just to get a head start.