Louis Rossman is right : memes

[–] RIP_Apollo@feddit.ch 78 points 1 year ago (33 children)

I hate the tribalism regarding Apple products. There are loyal fanboys who won’t hear a bad word about Apple, and then there are Apple haters who criticise everything about them.

I wish we had some more nuance in this debate. The reality is that there are advantages and disadvantages to Apple products. I’ll outline a few:

Advantages

Long iOS support. Typically you can expect an iPhone to be supported for 5-7 years, which is well above the average in the industry.
No bloatware or adverts on the iPhone
Better privacy than Google Android/Microsoft Windows
High-end hardware, e.g. M1 chip in MacBooks.
User friendly design. Nice user experience.

Disadvantages

Overpriced. Seriously all Apple products are more expensive than the competition.
Anti-consumer business practices that influence the industry. They normalised removing the headphone jack and using non-removable batteries, which other manufacturers followed. Another anti-consumer practice is using their proprietary Lighting port, rather than USB (luckily the EU should be forcing them to adopt USB-C and removable batteries soon). Also, no SD card slot because they want you to use iCloud
Walled garden. No support for side-loading apps
Required to use iTunes to add/remove music to the iPhone, which is a problem if you use Linux (you’d have to use Wine to install the Windows version as a workaround)

[–] gooey@lemmy.blahaj.zone 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I like to say that there are two Apples, Apple the designer and Apple the business.

Apple the designer is one of the best in the world. Yes they have blunders but they consistently put out some of the highest quality hardware and software. The current design language of the iPhone is beautiful, MacOS has its issues but it's a good OS, the seamlesness with which Apple devices work together is nothing short of incredible. They have some of the best engineers and designers in the world and it shows. (I'll never forgive them for the mouse though, that thing is a travesty)

Apple the business is a ghoul who hates its users and competition, would rather you buy a new phone than repair your broken one and, if they could, would make your device implode if you do anything they don't approve of. I'm still waiting for them to be benevolent enough to allow me to code on an M1 iPad, a device that has all the power of a mac but is completely knee capped by its OS.

I love Apple the designer, but unfortunately Apple the business makes it impossible for me to support them.

[–] xyguy@startrek.website 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is a great point. Anyone that says that the MacBook is a piece of crap has never used one (other than the first gen 12 inch MacBook) they are awesome and the design is great.

MacOS on the other hand really gets on my nerves and all of their anti-consumer stuff is enough for me to avoid them entirely. I won't even call them overpriced because a PC similarly equipped with a monitor as nice as theirs is just as much.

I wish there was a hardware designer as good as Apple on the PC side but because they are so good people excuse abhorrent business practices. You don't see people vehemently defending stupid things that Dell does for instance.

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[–] alphapuggle@programming.dev 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apple absolutely can do some great things, but I cannot overlook their anti-consumer practices towards the right to repair. The fact that aftermarket parts have to reuse a chip for the sole reason of marking the serial number the same as the original is ridiculous and should be illegal.

Also Apple devices are only more "private" in the sense that the prevent third parties from collecting your data (don't get me wrong, this is great), but then proceed to go and collect the same data for their own uses instead.

Another baffling thing I found is that you can't transfer files from the device if iCloud is enabled? That's fucking crazy to me. I get that it's not a common thing to do but I had multiple customers ask how they'd get something off, and the answer was to slowly download it from the cloud, if it was something that happened to be backed up.

[–] RIP_Apollo@feddit.ch 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apple devices are only more "private" in the sense that the prevent third parties from collecting your data (don't get me wrong, this is great), but then proceed to go and collect the same data for their own uses instead.

While I accept that Apple are far from perfect, my understanding is that even their data collection for their own purposes is still less than the data collection that Google use for their own purposes. And since their are only two major phone OS (Android and iOS), we can only choose between the lesser of the two evils.

After all, do you want to give your data to a company which is the world’s biggest ad company? Or instead give your data to a company whose business model is convincing people to buy $1000+ phone every year?

But yeah, I agree that Apple’s anti-consumer practices are awful. I wasn’t aware of the aftermarket parts re-using chips just for the serial numbers and I’m not even the least bit surprised. We need governments to bring in legislation to protect right to repair, because companies like Apple can’t be reasonable.

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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No bloatware or adverts on the iPhone

Cherry-picked. There are phones without ads or bloat. And, given the incompatibility between facetime/iMessage and apps standardized across all other platforms, I consider these to be bloat.

User friendly design. Nice user experience.

Subjective. I support a number of family members whose grandkids suggested iPhones. Whether it's swooshing, skootching, swiping, tapping or banging it against a guardrail, I haven't learned and they can't remember how to bring up the main app screen now that the functional button was removed -- like, none of them. I'm just here to fix their email passwords, and I leave the UX issues to said grandkids.

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[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

-Long iOS support. Typically you can expect an iPhone to be supported for 5-7 years, which is well above the average in the industry.

This I do agree with

No bloatware or adverts on the iPhone

GrapheneOS

Better privacy than Google Android/Microsoft Windows

GrapheneOS on phone, linux on PC.

High-end hardware, e.g. M1 chip in MacBooks.

This I also agree with, but fuck broadcom wifi drivers.

User friendly design. Nice user experience.

Eh, it is "so easy a child could do it," yes, but the lack of ability to do what I want with my own computer or phone negatively impacts my user experience, personally. This one is way more subjective than people give it credit for tbh.

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[–] glitched_lesbian 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wasn't Rossman's whole point that people that clowning on others for buying Apple instead of clowning on Apple is aiding Apple anyway?

If Apple get away with it, Samsung'll do it. So will Huawei, and Google, and Motorola. Apple users are not good punching bags

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But Apple wouldn't be able to get away with it when their customers wouldn't gobble up their bad decisions.

[–] Cqrd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Like everyone using chrome and allowing Google to control the browser ecosystem? Or Samsung and get all that delicious unremovable bloatware on their phone? Every company makes these decisions because rich people who invest in them force them to make profit year over year or get sued. This is a flaw in capitalism.

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[–] Jaxi_is_here@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 1 year ago (14 children)

I’m convinced people who post these haven’t actually used apple devices seriously without going into it with their superiority complex. the fluidity and peace of mind not having to find fucking drivers for some shit from 2004 that have long been consumed by time it just plugs in and works. Or the fact that for instance a MacBook comes with everything you need to say decompress a file without downloading winrar or 7zip it’s built in. The apple version of ms office comes with the device. Not to mention the software being specifically written for the hardware means i haven’t had a day ruining crash in so long i can’t remember. Not having God damn ads on my desktop you gotta be kidding me. Text messages on all my devices. My mouse and keyboard on my mac can automatically control my iPad. Sure you can kinda do these things on the bootleg os’s kinda sorta but when it comes out of the box like that and i don’t have to fuck with 20 3rd party apps and ads on everything is 10000% worth it to me.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

The walled golden garden is great isn't it?

I am forced to use a MacBook at work and I fricking hate it. The software follows such strange HIGs. Just look at the finder. Why is the default action on a folder/file to RENAME it? If I press enter on a folder I want to enter it, if I press enter on a file I want to open it.

Why does apples keyboard layout with DEde Locale is so utterly strange compared to IBM keyboard layouts?

Why do they not print atleast the second modifier row on the keys?

To use Macintosh's you really need to think differently.

But yeah the interconnection inside it's eco system is pretty neat.

Also, why whine about drivers for something from 2004? You, certainly as a apple user, don't have anything that old anyway. And the option to be able to use stuff from that age by installing a driver is super useful.

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[–] zbynaCool@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Seems more like an apple user with superioty complex who never used other os to me

[–] Luvon 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or another person who just can’t let someone who likes apple devices, like them.

The op post is pretty terrible. It’s insultingly in their superior complex. That’s what most extreme “all users who do x” takes are.

The response wasn’t that there is no other way to fulfill this list of things that they like, but that for them, apple devices fulfill this list of things.

I’ve used plenty of OSes. I switch between Linux for our servers, windows on my work computer and my gaming computer, and apples oses on the apple devices I own. I prefer macos to windows any day. That’s my personal preference. You prefer Linux? Good, have fun. Windows? Sure, whatever floats your boats.

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[–] drewsipher@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

I agree but the fediverse is built on open source evangelists you aren’t going to get a lot of agreement. I use an iPhone an Apple Watch and AirPods and have a work issued Mac I like them all just fine

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Apart from office pre installed, Linux has all these benefits for free. And even then, many distros have FOSS alternatives pre installed. Not great if you NEED MSOffice for work, but many suites, like OnlyOffice, are fully compatible with MSO formats.

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[–] June@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

This fight about whether owning an android device or an Apple device having any morality associated with it at all is stupid.

Change my mind

I also think it’s interesting how many people are trying to de-google their lives but still simp for android. One reason I like Apple is because they jealously guard my data and don’t sell it.

[–] Kleysley@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They guard your data? Quote from Apples Privacy Policy about the Apple-ID:

［...］we process the following categories of personal data as necessary for purposes of our legitimate interests or those of a third party, including information about:

　Your Apple ID account, including information you use to sign in, as well as all the contact, payment, and security details, such as trusted phone numbers or security questions, that you use across Apple services Your devices, including your device’s name, serial number, and other hardware identifiers Your use of, and subscriptions to, various Apple services, such as iCloud, iTunes Store, App Store, Apple Music, and Apple One Payment details, including account numbers and expiration dates, billing and shipping addresses, and gift card redemption information These legitimate interests include:

Providing you and others with better service and support
Using your data to send you offers via email and push notifications that may be of interest to you

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fight is actually about the non-repairability of apple products, mostly laptops in Louis Rossmans's case, and not related to android.

[–] CleoTheWizard 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think repairability is a discussion. But we can also talk about how android makers cut updates off sooner which dooms the hardware to be trashed quicker. Or the very real human cost of google killing projects related to android and selling data. Also, a lot of the Apple stuff has to do with cost to repair, not repairability. At the end of the day, Apple can and does repair and resell their stuff. They just charge more to do so. But a lot of their users pay up for it. Would be interesting to see the stats on where broken devices end up for each

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[–] JakeHimself@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Simping is not the same as lacking a reasonable alternative

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[–] dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de 26 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Bought Asus laptop, just 1.5 year later the product is discontinued and no support page can be found. They also stopped selling the charging brick for it.

Bought Sony headphones, a year later wanted to replace the foam. No customer support, no repair, just nada.

Bought Samsung phone. Filled to brim with bloat. Shows me ads on lockscreen. Crawling speed in 2 years. No updates.

Bought an iPhone for mom. Still getting updates after 4 years. Got battery replaced with no hassle.

Don't knock it till you try it.

[–] NENathaniel@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

These seem like cherry picked examples to an extent.

Most Asus laptops charge with basic USB C which can easily be purchased anywhere. They also use M.2 SSD’s instead of soldered one’s and standard screws vs Apple’s special shaped ones.

Apple’s only headphones + replacement pads are going to over 2x the price of even high-end Sony headphones. Plus Apple exclusively puts the Lightning jack on them instead of USB C or a 3.5mm jack

None of the Samsung phones I’ve ever used have had ads on the Lock Screen or any bloat that wasn’t easy to completely ignore. The ones that do are typically cheaper than the cheapest iPhone and an unfair comparison

[–] NENathaniel@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

Asus also sells many parts individually for self-repair, in contrast to Apple and the shenanigans that accompany their ‘self serve repair’ program

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[–] shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Facts! They buy simply to show off the logo and demonstrate they can afford to hang in a walled garden.

Edit: iPhones are more "private and secure" out of the box, but it literally takes half a brain with 5 minutes in Android settings to surpass this LOW bar.

[–] original_ish_name@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Android has encryption by default, good sandboxing, ability to install a more secure OS (if OEM doesn't suck), etc.

The only thing iOS has going for it is that it treats the users like babies and doesn't allow sideloading

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it treats the users like babies

That's been Apple's entire M.O. since their beginning. It's why they brought GUIs to the desktop in the early 80s, and retain such tight control over their designs. If there is a chance a user could become lost, misconfigure, or break something, they default to locking it down.

They turn computing devices into toasters that Grandma can operate.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While this is true, when I still used macOS, I simply learnt to use the terminal. It's unix like so it's not that hard. Allows you far more freedom. They basically lock away anything remotely difficult behind the terminal so that it scares off casual users. Basic stuff? GUI. Anything more difficult? Terminal.

I think apple's software is excellent. Certainly better than windows in many ways.

The hardware and how they treat customers when things break due to poor design? That's another matter.

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[–] ulkesh 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have no interest in changing an obviously uneducated opinion.

I’ll continue to enjoy my iPhone, my development MacBook Pro, my Windows gaming rig, my Linux server, and everything else that I choose to buy because I use all of it, happily every day.

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[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Rossmann was a lot better before he realized he could use his platform as a soapbox for weird right-libertarian politics. No, Louis, I didn’t come here to hear you rant about how much you have to pay in taxes, I want to know how you solved the problem of no power on this MacBook.

I also don’t get why he refuses to have accurate descriptions on his videos so they can actually be found when searching instead of having to skip through the videos to see, and instead just spams his parts store and a million other things on every video.

I had a chance to train with him, but went with Jessa at iPad Rehab instead, and I’m glad, because her class was an actual class plus dozens of hours of practical work, compared to Louis’s “come over to my shop for like 2 hours after we close and I’ll kinda just give you crap to do while bitching at you if you don’t understand my ineffectual explanations” that I’ve heard his class is from multiple people who took it.

[–] Dor7t0@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago

Rossman has been spewing literal facts for years now.

[–] cruspies@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

I freely admit to being that sucker. In a weak moment during a Covid lockdown I bought an iPad Pro. Worst purchase ever. It's too heavy to use comfortably, the battery life is shit and the paucity of apps compared with my Android phone is ridiculous. Worst of all, it died suddenly less than 18 months after I bought it. It was replaced under consumer laws here, but still. I feel like an idiot for having bought it.

The only other Apple product I own is a 160GB iPod Classic, bought in 2007 and still going strong. Sturdy, good battery life, small size, decent interface, room for all my music. So of course it's no longer produced or supported.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Been using Android for over a decade now. With the recent removal of 3.5mm jacks, I had to look into usb-c to 3.5mm adapters, because I prefer using my wired IEMs.

It turns out the apple usb-c to 3.5mm adapter is actually top notch, and only costs $9. Plenty of folks use that as an upgrade for their computers built in soundboard, because the digital to analog converter on the adapter is excellent and superior to most built in soundboards.

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[–] Zelaf@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I buy Fairphone!

[–] Teritz@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If they had at least a Headphone Jack and longer Software Support it would been have Great.

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[–] Greg@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

After over a decade on Android I'm going to switch to an iPhone for my next phone (once they go USB c). I have always bought flag ship Android phones and I haven't been impressed lately. Awful customer service from Google with my latest Pixel 6 was the last straw. I don't mind playing extra to make sure I have a working phone

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[–] Ejh3k@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago

A 14 year old girl once tried to berate me for having an android versus her iPhone. I asked her why her iPhone was so much better thsn my android? She didn't have a response. I told her that I had an iPhone, and found it inflexible and frustrating to use. It's overpriced and boring..

She didn't really understand what I was getting at, and why ear buds or blue text bubbles weren't important to me.

[–] lukini 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm an android user and have been from the start.

However, I have tiny ears, so I can't really use those in-ear earbuds that are common now. I did some research and frequently at the top of the lists for open earbuds that are Bluetooth are the...you might need to sit down for this...airpods. Yes, I know, crazy.

So here I am with airpods and a pixel 7. And they work great for $100 which isn't a crazy price compared to earbuds from companies like Google or Sony. Yes, most Apple stuff is overpriced, but they make good hardware, and I wish fanboys would stop making everything so black and white.

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[–] spiderjuzce@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 1 year ago

The iPad is great for art so I would mostly agree except for some things

[–] vext01@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago

The people who killed the headphone jack...

[–] SilentStorms@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Louis has stated many times that shitting on consumers for buying Apple products is not productive.

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[–] hellfire103@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago

That's why all mine are hand-me-downs. My family are the suckers.

[–] Skimmer@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you buy an Apple product, you don't actually own it.

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[–] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The only product from Apple I've ever been impressed by was Airpods and now every other company has them. I bought mine on a huge sale because I don't respect their bullshit prices and I do like them a lot, but I'm sure there are other brands I would like just as much now that they've been around for years.

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