cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/my_mouldy_memes/t/310874
THE FUTURE OF FEMINISM
IS ONLY AS POWERFUL
AS THE FUTURE OF ANTI-RACISM
CLEO WADE
Why?
this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
146 points (100.0% liked)
196
667 readers
37 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Honestly, I'm surprised that OP is being so obtuse about this. It's clear once you're familiar with intersectionality, but I think it could do well to be explained at least a little bit for those who aren't.
Essentially, the argument is that feminism, while a good force, needs anti-racism to maximize it's potential, just as it needs support for LGBTQ+ rights, since a lot of people are impacted by racism, homophobia, transphobia etc. Focusing largely on cis-het white middle-class women does help them, but we need those other elements too to be able to truly liberate people
Lol I'm not being obtuse, I'm trying to get them to admit the quiet part of their objection out loud
Because it widely breaks down to the same sort of discrimination. Feminism without anti-racism means that the discrimination we see towards women won't disappear, it'll just be shifted towards people of color. How successful is your movement if all you did was export the bad shit to other people so it's not your problem anymore?
If the response to "Women shouldn't have to do housework" is "Yes! Juanita should do the housework!" Then something failed.
This seems to assume that there's a certain fixed amount of "bad shit" that must be placed on one minority or another. If I eliminated all police brutality (which in the US disproportionately is aimed at black people), does that somehow make things any worse for women?
Do... Do you think Black women don't exist?
Are you just not even making an attempt to understand my point? In this scenario, of course black women would benefit, as they'd experience no police brutality. My point is that this magical elimination of a racial inequality problem would not make a gender related issue (e.g. the wage gap) automatically worse somehow, which seemed to be Leylaa's point if I'm understanding that correctly.
Why do you think?
This isn't exactly a helpful response. The two movements are different in myriad ways, and I see no reason to believe that the failure or success, however that may be defined, of one would cause the other to have the same fate.
Mostly because the roots of every discrimination are basically the same, and if you focus on only one aspect of it, you will not succeed no matter how much progress you think you're making. For example, both racism and misogyny is based on the old entitlement, on the old white men's unearned sense of superiority, and if you don't target that, you will never have an egalitarian society, even if you make them pretend that they aren't overtly misogynistic anymore. It's like TERFs teaming up with white supremacists to harass trans people, only to be incredibly surprised that white supremacists hate women too.
Kinda sounds like in that example, the reason for humans that are not white old men to be racist is those white old men. Sorry if I'm being ignorant here, but I always though racism is common among every demographic. I though it's more of a thing that's imprinted onto you and just not challenged because you don't interact with enough people you have prejudices against. I don't want to misrepresent your point, but from what I see, a racist black woman can exist without the white man to be the reason for that
And if we were living in the black matriarchy, we would be having a different conversation. But we live in the white patriarchy, so we are having this one.
But regardless, sexism, racism, homophobia, and every other types of descrimination have basically the same root, so there is no real way to get rid of one without getting rid of the rest.
Sorry, I'm just not that informed on that subject, but what is the same root? The old white men? So if we locked all of them up we would be living in a utopia?
Lmfao, and I get called obtuse... How about do even the most superficial research in to racism and sexism and why they exist before you demand other people do the work for you, that you promptly disregard to continue pushing your own deliberate misunderstanding of the subject you clearly care so little about ? Sealions be sealioning, while those who can spot you miles away and refuse to feed your bullshit get called obtuse...
And why is that?
ITT: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1575588
I've blocked the wilfully (if not maliciously) ignorant sealions, but since I'm on 196 and not my own page I can't fully ban them, so if you want to keep trying to educate them, be my guests more power to ya, but I'm out lol
This feels very white savior-y after checking out that wiki
Says the white person who upvoted pretty much every single comment opposing it (sorry, pretending to misunderstand).
You're the equivalent of an incel calling any man capable of respectful interaction with a woman a white knight (which they do not because they want to be able to respectfully interact, but because they see respet as transactional).
As always, once you peel back the pseudo intellectual bullshit, it's projection all the way down.
My wife used to never consider herself a feminist because of how white feminists simply do not care about the issues of black women. Back in the old site there were tons of discussions around r/blackladies about how subs like 2x were horrible because every single time a black woman would post about her issues she faced with racism all the white liberal women would come out and invalidate and question and deny their experiences. Feminism without anti racism is dead. Gloria Steinam realized this and I wish others paid attention.
I'm sorry to hear about her experience, but sadly not surprised - it isn't unique.
It's almost as if people who have reached the most basic level of "progressive" (aka the level that benefits them and not a single step beyond) think they're done, they can put their feet up and claim their cookies, but truth is that anti-racism, like anti-sexism and all the other anti-isms and -phobias, is an ongoing conscious effort that never stops, because oppression never stops (especially not once a single liberal has become "woke" - I despise the bastardisation of that word).
Privilege is a hell of a drug, no matter what side of the the political spectrum you fall on, and I agree - I wish more people paid attention.
I'd like to thank the folks who invested their time in providing some really great answers, and also to point out how clearly uninterested the trolls were in actually understanding the meme, since they all seem to have vanished now they can no longer feign ignorance.