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The South's current government is ridiculously conservative. Rolling back labour laws and women's rights were pillars of their election run. They'll do whatever the US tells them to. It shouldn't come as a surprise that peaceful diplomacy is not at the forefront of their mind.
It's honestly pretty cyclical, they bounce back and forth between more diplomatic minded leadership and more warhungry. They are much more in the antagonistic phase of their cycle right now.
Weird how the "unstable dictatorship" is the more consistent one in this relationship
There’s no point in negotiating with a dictator whose primary goal is to remain in power. A peaceful end to the conflict means the death of Kim at the hands of the oppressed.
This is like asking a kidnapper to kindly release the hostages or we will ask again later.
Glad you're not in charge. Currently, there is tension between Korean allies which unfortunately means there will be no peace for the Korean people.
I think with time, Korea can be peacefully reunified. It may not be in my lifetime, but one day I believe it will happen. As time move forward, new events and opportunites arise that may present the chance for reunification.
The problem with North Korea is that its entire cultural identity is built on resisting American aggression. Without having an enemy to fight, what is the reason for the country going on? Why would the people of North Korea tolerate the current government other than to resist invasion?
The North Korean regime needs conflict. It doesn't need war, but it needs conflict. Kim could have gotten a sweetheart deal from Trump to end the war and never took it. Why? Because getting rid of the "American threat" also gets rid of North Korea's legitimacy.
Why would the people of North Korea tolerate the current government other than to resist invasion?
The Kim family has done a lot for the people in the DPRK, and is generally very well liked. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but a lot of the problems stem not from the current DPRK leadership but the international (read: US) sanctions placed on them. Compared to the hypercapitalist hellscape of SK, the work-life balance in the DPRK seems downright utopian. Prior to the US invasion, the Korean peninsula was fairly unified in their support of socialism.
The people would certainly welcome peace, I just don't know how that is possible while the threat of the USA looms. People like to portray them as an aggressive country, but they have never done anything to another coountry except threaten to defend themselves.
LOL
Is it well liked? Or is it only well liked because the country is doing "the best that it can" against the USA? And even then, is it actually well liked or only liked enough to keep the BoAn from paying too much attention to them?
And I didn't mention the people of North Korea, I mentioned its government. The North Korean government needs conflict with the USA to justify itself.
Obviously anecdotal, but from the people I spoke to in the DPRK, generally very well liked. And no, I did not have government minders making sure they said "the right thing". Several programs were quite popular, particularly housing programs. There was a big push for community-based activities during my stay, even smaller towns had community centers where people could go after work to learn new skills or continuing education. The university I was based out of was pretty international as well, but even there people didn't spend that much time thinking about the US, nor did they have a particularly negative view of the average American citizen. More curious than hostile.
How are you sure you didn't have government minders watching what others said?
What program were you in that took you on a tour of North Korea?
I was there in for several months in graduate school doing research for my thesis, wasn't part of a tour. Based out of Kim Il Sung university at the time. I spent about a year in South Korea as well prior. Since I wasn't on a formal tour, I was left to my own devices a lot of the time unless I needed a guide to help me get access somewhere.
Technically yes, every rural farming village could have been secretly micced with hidden cameras on the off chance that a foreigner was going to stop by, but that seems unlikely. This was a little over ten years ago so cell phones (which would be a fairly common metric of government surviellence) were not as prevalent in the DPRK yet as they are now, so a lot of people weren't carrying one. I was a no-name graduate student, not a well-known diplomat, I don't think the government was particularly invested in spending large sums of money tracking me. So yes, technically they COULD have, but just as much as any other state could have.
10 years ago is right around when Kim Jong Un came to power and there were a few years of trying to open up before the country closed itself off again. The program you were in may still be going on, but I would be surprised if it did at the level it was when you were there.
But even then, I would be surprised if you weren't being tracked somehow just to make sure that you weren't a spy or initiating some local political troubles. You might not have seen it, but it would have been there, and the government would have likely attempted to keep the tracking hidden from you as a way to show its openness.
And I'm not going to be able to argue against your first hand account of rural North Korea. I don't see the people of North Korea being this group of bloodthirsty Communists who want to blow up all of capitalism. However, I don't see the people of North Korea being able to put political pressure on their government to change policies. Part of that is that the government of North Korea can use its conflict with the US as a reason to say that they are still at war and therefore can't allow more to be involved in the political process.
And I’m not going to be able to argue against your first hand account of rural North Korea.
Unless you are from the US or SK, when things open up a bit more that is looking to be possible again. I would encourage you to try visiting if you have the time and means. Even if we totally divorce things from the politics, there's a lot of beautiful nature there.
Anecdotally, you seem relatively reasonable and I think it would be an interesting experience.
However, I don’t see the people of North Korea being able to put political pressure on their government to change policies.
It does depend to what extent, people can definitely enact policy change. While all political organizations do ultimately belong to the Democratic Front for the Reunification of Korea, they have multiple political parties under that umbrella that do different on some issues. Obviously they aren't going to suddenly pass laws making the place capitalist, but they can do and do change some things. The Social Democratic Policy is notably more liberal in their attitudes as it was formed by a lot of the petite bourgeoise. They actually have published journal articles that are critical of the ruling party.
I live in the USA and when I leave my house I am being constantly tracked by at least five different private surveillance networks. There's hundreds (thousands?) of privately owned facial recognition and license plate scanners within 20 miles of my house. My neighbors even invite them into their homes and have constantly recording cameras facing the street. They are recording everything that goes on everywhere, reporting back to their corporate overlords, and selling that data to whomever can pay (including the US government).
I'd much rather have state surveillance because that's at least somewhat auditable, and the state is getting the data either way. When municipalities and citizens start paying for the privilege to feed them data is when I start to get really worried about what they're doing with it.
So don't fucking cry to me about constant surveillance in north korea. Our lives are constantly being quantified and logged right here in the country that touts itself as the bastion of freedom but continually wipes its ass with the bill of rights.
I'm not crying about it, but I'm noting it is there. I'm also noting that the issue of not toeing the party line may have more consequences for the average person compared to the US.
I’m not crying about it, but I’m noting it is there.
Why? I just explained how terrible surveillance is in the USA in response to you claiming the other poster was constantly being watched while they were in NK after they stated they didn't have anyone watching over their shoulders every minute. There was no reason to bring that up other than to inflame existing western opinions on the DPRK.
I’m also noting that the issue of not toeing the party line may have more consequences for the average person compared to the US.
It doesnt matter what your political opinions are in the US. Everyone is regarded as if they are an enemy of the state and the rights they pretend to hold so dear are just a suggestion to the people in power. Why else would they have extended the laws they say are created to 'fight terrorism' to monitor all citizens at all times? We're living these consequences every day.
It came in the discussion between the person who went to North Korea and myself regarding their experience. I thought we had a respectful discussion about the experience.
You also talked past my comment about the impacts of the impacts of North Korean surveillance compared to American surveillance. Is the issue that North Korea can't afford an American like system or a Chinese like system?
You literally described the US, it is funny how it is always reflection.
How is the USA defined by resisting North Korea?
Replace NK with US and American Threat with any movement or government that tries to be sovereign.
Also take note of the arrogance of the claim to know and declare another nations complete cultural identity.
To give them a chance I have asked them to clarify but I am pretty sure they haven't lived in the DPRK
The problem with North Korea is that its entire cultural identity is built on resisting American aggression
I am curious: Why do you feel you can confidently speak on the exact nature of another nations cultural identity? Let alone reduce it in this way?
Not sure if you understand how arrogant your statement is, but you have to realize that you have 0 idea of the cultural identity of the people in the DPRK.
Corporate news isn't interested in showing you anything but the conflict don't make the mistake of letting that shape your perception. The first step is realizing your ignorance
I didn't say people, I said government. Why do people conflating the two?
Bc I haven't heard of the cultural identity of a government
And its still not true, they have a distinct political ideology that used to be called juche, idk if they changed the name.
Also you said: "the problem with North Korea is..." not really an indicator you're talking about the government, especially given the context of a cultural identity
Two Kims have already died and nothing changed. The current one is Swiss educated, likes NBA, and speaks at least a little English. If there was a hope that a change of dictator was going to do anything, he was it.
Don't even know why that was even an option, anyway. NK isn't ever going to cooperate with its "enemies" and will just continue to indoctrinate its population with propaganda.
The only solution is a military invasion of NK. Always has been.
Worked out so well last time, right?
The only solution is a military invasion of NK. Always has been.
The US always could have not disrupted the planned elections and installed a military dictatorship that kept a lot of the Japanese colonial officers around and started mass killing Koreans. Then the democratic korea wouldn't have had to try to liberate their country.
Could've, would've, should've. The US has had a long and sordid history of downright fucked-up foreign policy decisions.
But, bitching about it doesn't really change the current situation. NK has a dictatorship with a enough military power that it still requires a decent army to overrun. Kim isn't going to listen to any diplomacy, except when he can trick some diplomat to give him more power or image-building. At best, China might be able to cut off its funding and topple Kim's little empire, but China has no interest in that.
will just continue to indoctrinate its population with propaganda.
Oh yes, definitely that doesn't happen in any of those "civilized" western countries right? Nobody making up things like "North Koreans have no word for love" or "We push trains to work every day".
Your perspective being shared by bloodthirsty us officials is why the drpk has and is justified in having nukes
If you don't wan't to be invaded, don't give your enemies a convenient and completely morally justifiable reason to do so.
Bloodthirsty imperialist, keep fantasizing about them being helpless so they could be invaded.
What are these completely moral justifiable reasons you speak of?
The government there starves and enslaves its entire population.
???????
I would argue that we are, as a planetary civilization, almost past the point where a war of that sort is even possible.
On the other hand, if China were to ever shun NK, I would bet that their government would likely collapse in less than a decade.
Sadly, China has a ton of reasons to want to prevent that, one of the bigger ones being the border with NK where many, many refugees would try to cross into China.
I could however see, someday, China agreeing to a massive backroom deal on a scale that would be unprecedented:
China abruptly works to ensure a complete collapse of the NK government, without any NK nuclear weapons either coming into play or any NK nuclear weapons going missing (except to China itself, if it wants them).
And SK along with a good chunk of the Western world agrees to immediately conduct one of the largest humanitarian missions in history, to ensure that nobody is fleeing NK into China unless they have tons of assets and they want to avoid repercussions for their actions.
There are, sadly, a lot of reasons why China wouldn't want the western powers capable of pulling that off to have control of territory that close to China though.
SK would be their safest bet, but SK doesn't have the resources to pull of that kind of a humanitarian effort.
And the chances that someone like the US wouldn't take the chance to plop a military base in what is currently NK seems awfully slim.
No war but class war. Death to all forms of government.
Without government, who's going to stop armed gangs from killing you and taking all of your property?
You seem to be under the belief that human beings are incapable of managing themselves and we need hirearchies that "know better" to rule over us
No, I'm under the belief that there are groups of bad people that the rest of us need protection from.
I'm also under the belief that I live in a democracy, in which we the people choose our leaders. If the government does something bad, it's because we put someone bad into power. The blame lies with us, not some distant, faceless, unelected hierarchy.
Don't believe me? Listen to Republican rhetoric some time. Decode the dog whistles. You'll find that they've been doing precisely what they've been saying they'd do: ban abortion, make life hell for immigrants, give money to the rich, dismantle democracy, and so on. None of their actions are surprising. There is no deep state conspiracy here, just politicians doing what they were elected to do.
They have nukes, my lemon. This has never be the solution.
Okay seriously guys! Who let John Bolton join lemmy?
Unfortunately the current situation appeases the global powers the most. China and Russia will not stand to have a US allied united Korea so close to Beijing and Vladivostok, which means a united Korea is a neutral, non US aligned Korea, which the US does not want. Having North Korea be a buffer state between China/Russia and the US aligned South Korea is the most stable option, and as a result North Korea knows that it can do whatever it wants and still be propped up by Beijing, just as it has since the Korean war