this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
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Privacy

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And since you won't be able to modify web pages, it will also mean the end of customization, either for looks (ie. DarkReader, Stylus), conveniance (ie. Tampermonkey) or accessibility.

The community feedback is... interesting to say the least.

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[–] Teon@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"Please click on all the crosswalks before you can enter this site"
This is why people pirate things.

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[–] rcbrk@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Here are the github repository, issues and comments immortalised for posterity in IPFS:

The issues and comments are in github json format -- if anyone wants to collate them into a human-readable text or html file, please do so.

Edit: Its immortality of course depends on you to access and pin the content.

[–] rms1990@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago

Time to switch to the Gemini protocol.

[–] A2PKXG@feddit.de 19 points 1 year ago

This sounds so sad

[–] PeterPoopshit@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We should harass the fuck out of this guy until he removes it. This shit is completely uncalled for.

[–] Zaphod@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If this were to become a thing, couldn't you take the html and insert the content into a locally generated page and modify that?

[–] Zetaphor@zemmy.cc 16 points 1 year ago

For sites that rely on XHR using Javascript, which let's be honest is pretty much all of them, this would not work due to CORS and CSP restrictions

[–] couragethebravedog@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

This seems so ridiculous. I'm coming from a privacy perspective. I'm using a number of extensions that block as many trackers as possible. Now I may have to give that up just so someone can "attest" to my identity. I'll have to forgo my privacy, otherwise I can't use the web.

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[–] eth0p@iusearchlinux.fyi 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

This post title is misleading.

They aren't proposing a way for browsers to DRM page contents and prevent modifications from extensions. This proposal is for an API that allows for details of the browser environment to be shared and cryptographically verified. Think of it like how Android apps have a framework to check that a device is not rooted, except it will also tell you more details like what flavor of OS is being used.

Is it a pointless proposal that will hurt the open web more than it will help? Yes.

Could it be used to enforce DRM? Also, yes. A server could refuse to provide protected content to unverified browsers or browsers running under an environment they don't trust (e.g. Linux).

Does it aim to destroy extensions and adblockers? No.
Straight from the page itself:

Non-goals:

...

  • Enforce or interfere with browser functionality, including plugins and extensions.

Edit: To elaborate on the consequences of the proposal...

Could it be used to prevent ad blocking? Yes. There are two hypothetical ways this could hurt adblock extensions:

  1. As part of the browser "environment" data, the browser could opt to send details about whether built-in ad-block is enabled, any ad-block extensions are enabled, or even if there are any extensions installed at all.

Knowing this data and trusting it's not fake, a website could choose to refuse to serve contents to browsers that have extensions or ad blocking software.

  1. This could lead to a walled-garden web. Browsers that don't support the standard, or minority usage browsers could be prevented from accessing content.

Websites could then require that users visit from a browser that doesn't support adblock extensions.

I'm not saying the proposal is harmless and should be implemented. It has consequences that will hurt both users and adblockers, but it shouldn't be sensationalized to "Google wants to add DRM to web pages".

Edit 2: Most of the recent feedback on the GitHub issues seems to be lacking in feedback on the proposal itself, but here's some good ones that bring up excellent concerns:

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[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 year ago

Definitely time to make our own internet, with hookers and blow.

[–] Star@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I ditched Chrome about a year ago for Edge and just recently switched to Firefox, shouldn't really be concerning as long as there are alternatives.

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[–] lohrun@fediverse.boo 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Web 3.0 - users, kindly go fuck yourselves p.s. pay us subscription money and view lots of ads

[–] makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

I feel like lemmy is the real Web 3. I'll die on that little hill gladly

[–] schmorpel@slrpnk.net 13 points 1 year ago

I remember watching Chrome fill up long lists of ??? in the task manager, back when I still used Windows and Chrome on an old Laptop. Both CPU and RAM were working at their utmost and that shit blocked everything.

[–] Mylemmy@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Geez this would suck but as with other drm I’m sure the de-drm plug-in would follow

[–] BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm afraid that browsers supporting this DRM would also block attempts to break it and that browsers that do not support it get blocked by websites using it

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[–] arc@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

I find it hard to see how they could protect content from ad blockers without also crippling pages that self modify their own content. Perhaps they could put headers akin to content security policy that forbids external modification. Assuming a browser were to honour that header I could see bad publicity and a lot of people just moving to another browser which doesn't. Additionally, ad blockers aren't the only things that modify pages - breaking accessibility add ons could be more negative publicity (just like with Reddit).

I think browsers would be best off to let websites develop countermeasures if they're so sore about ad blockers. Perhaps they could use "self healing" Javascript libraries that put back content which is removed. Or they could just refuse to work if they detect an ad blocker, e.g. they stick some canaries in the DOM or along blocked paths to see if an ad blocker is present.

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