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is this how extroverts function? (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by sarah2653@lemmy.ml to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
30 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/26365993

I'm the quiet, introverted one and I may be on the spectrum. I like to do my job and go home. I hate drama and drama queens and ignore people when they start gossiping. Many extroverts find that offensive and talk behind my back like teenagers do. This stupid drama is the only reason why I quit my job after finding a new one.

I agreed to stay 4 weeks with the company because some coworkers are actually grown ups, it is a breeze to work with them and I can use their experience to be a better professional.

Back to the immature ones: Past me would ignore their sarcastic and passive aggressive comments, which took a toll on me but now I have nothing to lose and I couldn't care less what they think of me, meaning I started to answer back using their same tone and so sarcastically and passive aggressively as them: they yell at me accusing of doing something on purpose, I politely tell them to calm down and to seek help.

Most of my coworkers are women. Since I started answering back and being a jerk, they toned their b%tchiness way down, it is more pleasant to work here now.

I don't understand why my coworkers treat me with some respect now that I'm being a jerk and I hate I have to be a jerk to be treated with a modicum of respect. I don't know if I'm wrong but I think they have an idea of what a man is supposed to be and now that I fit their definition of a man, they leave me alone because they see in me something familiar to them.

I find it sad I have to be an ass to be treated with respect and I hope to find a workplace where I can be myself and work with no drama.

Is this something that's going to happen no matter where I work?

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[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 39 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Okay, first off, fellow introvert here:

The problem you're describing isn't really an introvert-extrovert thing, it's a sociable-antisocial thing. I think your gender dynamics theory has some merit, too, but what you need to understand is that, before, you were acting antisocial.

Ignoring people is antisocial, and moreso when it's people talking about their feelings. To you that was worthless drama but to them it was their emotional experience. Now you're engaging; and yes, with hostility, but at least there's communication and connection.

And in my experience, a lot of more blunt people have trouble telling passive-aggression apart from a more indirect communication style. "Did you email Bob from shipping yet?" is very blunt, to the point of rudeness. "It's important that Shipping is up-to-date on these developments, Bob is their point person" is much less confrontational.

So I'd say it's not being a jerk that's improved your situation, it's matching communication styles with your teammates.

[–] mr_jaaay@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago

Insightful, thanks. I’ve recemtly gone from a tech position to a more sales oriented one and I’m constantly agitated by the passive language sales and marketing people use. I’ve actually started using AI to understand calls I’m on because I have trouble following all the sales BS.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago

Now you’re engaging; and yes, with hostility, but at least there’s communication and connection.

it’s not being a jerk that’s improved your situation, it’s matching communication styles with your teammates.

do you know those couples where they only communicate yelling? Why would a sane person want that? It still doesn't make any sense. To you engaging with hostility is better than not engaging but I still find it appalling and prefer silence and quietness over yelling and drama. Yelling is extremely draining.

OTOH your post makes me understand how some people think, hopefully a very reduced number of people, but if this is how some of my coworkers communicate and expect me to communicate, quitting is still the right choice. This cannot be healthy on the long term.

Going on, I'll match my new coworkers' communication style and volume, but it can get really ludicrous if 2 "adults" at the office start yelling at each other (reason why I prefer to simply disappear)

Still baffled, because yours is a whole novel idea to me: angry communication, even toxic, aggressive and unpleasant is better than no communication. Not saying that I agree with it, but I'll think about it when dealing with some of my coworkers.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 1 week ago

Yep. I'm on the blunt side and I've been told by some people that they thought people did something wrong based on my direct communication. I had to respond that I work in an industry where you have to be blunt to communicate what you want, so bluntness is the standard.

On the flip side, I've gotten frustrated by people who are far more passive in giving direction because it ends up leading to poor decisions and rework that should have been addressed because they didn't provide clarity when asked to.

[–] notabot@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Matching communication styles is the key here. If there's a general chatty vibe to the team and you're the only one not engaging then you're the odd one out and that will invite comment.

If your team are chatty, you don't need to go all out at the same level they are, but showing some willing and chatting at least sometimes will usually be enough to ensure harmony. Knowing how to disengage without causing offence or annoyance is also an important skill.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If your team are chatty, you don’t need to go all out at the same level they are, but showing some willing and chatting at least sometimes will usually be enough to ensure harmony.

my team is not made of people who simply want a hello. I don't want to even say hello because if I do they'll dump on me a monologue about their weekend, what they cooked or the reasons why they're angry at another coworker.

Knowing how to disengage without causing offence or annoyance is also an important skill.

can you write an answer with tips to disengage without causing offence?

I don't think I can do this: while your post seems genuine I still find it ludicrous to have to placate needy people with attention this way. If I give them a bit of attention, they'll want more and talk to me even more about their feelings at the workplace and distract me, something I don't want.

[–] notabot@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you want a productive outcome the first thing you'll probably need to do is realign your thinking about this. You're not having "to placate needy people with attention this way", these are your teammates, and above all, other human beings, and they're inviting you to be part of their group. Engaging with them isn't doing them a favour, it's doing you a favour. Yes, some people will take the slightest opportunity to talk your ear off, but not engaging at all is just setting up walls that leave you on the outside. Equally, you need to respect your need for focus and lack of distraction, which can certainly be tricky if everyone else is reliving the drama of their weekend.

I'm certainly more on the introverted side of things, but I've found it very beneficial to get myself out of my shell regularly to talk to other people at work. The best way I've found is to effectively 'time box' chatting time. Find times when people are generally more relaxed and chatty and you're not focusing on work. I've found lunch time is often good as people will chat, but also have natural reasons to break off themselves. Maybe they go to the gym, or are meeting a friend for lunch, or maybe they just want a bit of peace and quiet! Whatever it is, it's a good opportunity to chat for a few minutes, then if they don't break it off, you can plead a prior engagement and break away without upsetting anyone. Even claiming you have to get back to your desk to finish a report will do. Once people find they can interact with you, but only a bit, they'll often self-regulate.

TLDR: loose the attitude that you're having to "placate" the "needy" and start seeing socialising as an opportunity to develop better conbections with your team. You never know when that can come in handy.

Challenge yourself to relax and spend at least 2 minutes socialising in a friendly way tomorrow, then work on extending that up to a point tgat people seem comfortable with, without them swamping you. You've already handed in your notice, so you have the perfect, low consequence situation to practice in.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

thanks for answering.

I guess I could play a small social experiment and see how people react before I change workplaces and decide if I can and want to keep placating people this way?

Notice that I get along with some coworkers. With these ones I don’t need to play theatrics. It’s the loud, yelling ones with no boundaries the ones that grind my gears and make me want to run for life.

[–] notabot@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago

I definitely feel your pain with the loud, no boundaries ones, they can be exhausting if you either don't or can't manage them efficiently. That's where I found that engaging on my terms at times that gave natural reasons to break off helped. I found most people were a lot less likely to dump if I was 'in' the group, but just seemed busy/preoccupied, rather than when I was 'out' of the group.

Think of it this way, being able to socially interact with your team in a normal work environment is a useful skill, and like any skill you only get better at it by practising. It might be hard work initially, but you've got a great opportunity right now, so go for it. It's no great loss if it doesn't go smoothly, you're heading for the door anyway.

Good luck, and remember, if it all gets too much, you need to go, you've got to have that report on your boss's desk by the end of business today.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

but at least there’s communication and connection

wait, so i'm forced to interact with crappy people if i want to be left alone? why would they take offense in you just wanting nothing with them?

[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

They take offense because "wanting nothing from them" implies that they have nothing to offer. Even if this is true, it's still rude to imply.

And yeah, pretty much the only way to get needy conversationalists off your back is to throw them a bone once in a while, even if it's only a "ooh that's rough, but whatcha gonna do?" or a "not bad, yourself?"

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago

They take offense because “wanting nothing from them” implies that they have nothing to offer.

but some of them do have something to offer: job experience and know how, but they fixate on gossiping and badmouthing other coworkers when they're not around.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

sounds like some horrible childish people to be around holy shit.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago

why would they take offense in you just wanting nothing with them?

I still don't get it, but they're this needy, apparently

[–] CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Really insightful comment. I did not understand OPs perspective at all but it feels like you've hit the nail on the head.

When I first joined the work force I had this idea that 'I was there to do a job not make friends.' but that attitude made me miserable

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

could yo describe why it made you miserable? To me a job is something I do for money, not because I need friends. There are bars and clubs to meet people.

[–] CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago

This was years ago. But I've never been much into the bars and clubs scene. I remember at the time just feeling isolated and alone. I didn't like spending 8-12 hours every day without any connection to anyone. Along with an extremely high pressure work environment, I was breaking down into tears on my way home most days.

I did it to myself so I was able to open up and find ways to connect to the people around me once I changed my attitude.

I also found some solidarity. It started as just a few complaints about how things were run but eventually I joined the union who helped me recoup a bunch of stolen wages.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Here's the secret.

There's a huge difference between not speaking to people and saying a few words.

If someone says "hello" to you and you ignore them, they think you're snubbing them. If you just say "hello" back then they are usually satisfied.

Try timing your interactions. You'll find if you spend even 15 seconds talking to people they'll end the conversation themselves.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you just say “hello” back then they are usually satisfied.

sadly, that's not the case where I am. They always want more.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Like I said, try timing it.

I think you'll see the conversations take less time than you think.

I thought I'd never be glib, but after getting a job where I had to deal with the public all day, I soon realized it was just a muscle like any other. the more you do, the more you can do.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I will time it. Thanks

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago

It's like doing planks. You swear you've been holding it an hour, but it's really five seconds.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I gotta admit, it's way easier to be a moody silent anti-social guy than to be one as a woman. I've seen plenty of the former (am one myself) and it's just shrugged off like "oh he's just like that", but to be a moody antisocial woman is practically a death sentence in an office environment.

I don't have any answers, but you do have my sympathy. I can only say it pays to learn how to force a smile, even if it feels insincere.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I don’t have any answers, but you do have my sympathy.

thank you

can only say it pays to learn how to force a smile, even if it feels insincere.

I'm a terrible actor and I hate phony people.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

See it less like a way to lower people's defenses for your own gain, and more as a way to telegraph your general passivity (passiveness?) to anyone who happens to look in your direction.
I'm bad at it myself, but I know others who use it all the time and marvel at their ability to just fade into the background, which I think is the desired outcome.

[–] muse@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago

It's an unhealthy environment, and they are subconsciously saying they don't want to be there either. It's just one job in one building in one company in one country. There's many other opportunities out there that are not like Glengarry Glen Ross.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 1 week ago

My general experiences with having kick up the agressiveness is dealing with other men. Most of my experiences with women have generally been fine but I am in tech so any women are pretty intelligent and educated.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, i've made more or less the same experiences.

I tended to be shy, kind and gentle when i was a child/teenager. My mother always pressured me to "make more noise", which just means, be more rude. Another girl in my class that kinda liked me also informed me that i would have to be "more self-conscious", what i interpret as "more arrogant". I hate it.

Funnily enough, now that i have adapted to society and tend to treat other people a bit more roughly in general, and try not to be "too friendly", people call me out on that again and ask me to "show more respect".

TL;DR: People are assholes; Ignore 90% of what they say, if possible. Just be yourself. It's the best person you could possibly be.

[–] sarah2653@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

People are assholes; Ignore 90% of what they say, if possible. Just be yourself. It’s the best person you could possibly be.

I'm surprised to see that your post has been upvoted. Usually the shy, quiet ones are mistaken for arrogant jerks and get bullied and downvoted by the extroverts.

I'm actually conflicted because on one hand I want to be me, my freedom above everything else, I choose my friends and the people I open up to and otoh I wonder if I should play theatrics for short bursts of time (like 2 minutes) to placate some coworker's fragile egos.

My teenager self with my parents were like yours: open up, talk more, you are not normal (yup, my father told me that). They bullied me and I tried that for a week, extremely tiring and ridiculous to talk to them about stupid sh*t I don't care about just to please the needy extroverts, but obviously I would go back to my normal self, because they are so tiring. My parents didn't respect me, same as these needy coworkers now.

It doesn't make any sense trying to change a person's personality. So sad that extroverts feel we do this because we hate them.

I still don't know what the ideal solution is, or if there's an ideal solution.

thanks for your post and good luck to you.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 days ago

we gotta keep trying :)

is my opinion at least