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Observing American politics feels really strange at the moment (lemm.ee)

submitted 5 days ago by pet1t@lemm.ee to c/casualconversation@lemm.ee

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As an outsider (I live in Belgium) it feels very weird and dystopian to see everything happening in American politics with Trump and Musk.

On one side, it's very interesting and almost entertaining; on the other side, it's scary. I can't imagine what it must be like to live in the USA.

Americans, how do you cope? What's your take on the situation?

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[–] compostgoblin@slrpnk.net 57 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

I am trying to ignore it. It’s like all the worst fears I could have coming true. The richest man in the world, a naked fascist and virulent transphobe, is gobbling up all the sensitive data the government has and is feeding it to AI so he can tear down the government and usher in techno-feudalism.

Meanwhile, I still have to go to work and pretend that everything is fine and normal, while the government is trying to define trans people out of existence, help Israel ethnically cleanse Palestine, and threaten every ally we’ve had.

I want to leave, but it’s extraordinarily difficult to uproot your life, and there’s no guarantee that finding a viable way to move elsewhere is going to happen.

So I’m just trying to imagine myself as a tiny individual, trying to hide from the brutality and eke out a good life with my little resources and community, and pray that whatever happens doesn’t happen to me directly.

Maybe I should be out protesting - I feel like I should - but there isn’t a mass movement right now, and there’s no leverage in government to stop them. So things are feeling pretty bleak right now.

[–] usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml 23 points 5 days ago (1 children)

but there isn’t a mass movement right now

Lookup the 50501 movement. There were protests across the entire country in every single state yesterday and they are planning future ones too. Many of them were quite large especially considering how short notice they were prepared

Here's one video montage with just handful of some of the protests https://bsky.app/profile/50501movement.bsky.social/post/3lifqkjki2k2o

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

"a peaceful movement". Ok. Unilaterally disarming seems like a dubious move to me.

I don't think protests where you just stand around and chant are especially effective. Maybe in 1950 when seeing people get firehosed was shocking, but the world is different today. Media is captured by the wealthy and most people don't care.

[–] usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml 26 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Protests are a starting point not an ending one. Many of the groups involved in this like Indivisible are also recruiting people from theses protests to do the less flashy work of fighting back in other ways

They also are quite the lighting rod to get people to feel engaged more broadly. If you've never gone to a mass protest, it's hard to describe how they reignite you to fight back. Seeing all those people there makes you realize you are not alone. That you are not the only one who doesn't think this is okay

These most recent protests were also much larger than the media is describing it. The media is saying thousands nationwide, but there were multiple cities that each had 1000+ people. Many smaller cities had hundreds protesting

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 4 points 5 days ago

This is a good point. Seeing other people get onto the street can motivate people who weren't feeling enthusiastic.

But I do worry that protests will fizzle out and be, as you say, an ending point. Maybe they won't be.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

glad to see you guys are doing a bit of socialism to fight back.

just wanted to wish you all the best in your endeavours.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 14 points 5 days ago

Maybe I should be out protesting - I feel like I should - but there isn’t a mass movement right now, and there’s no leverage in government to stop them. So things are feeling pretty bleak right now.

Nothing is going to change in a big hurry, no matter what happens, but the efforts great and small that we all make are cumulative over time, so that when observable change happens, it'll be solid.

You're enough. What you can do is enough, even if it's as simple as making some space in your home to be able to accomodate someone who needs safety on short notice, getting involved in mutual aid, printing flyers, being observant and identifying small opportunities to make fascists think twice. Even just getting into a resistance mindset is a positive move.

Everything has risk, of course, and the level of risk you are prepared to take on, for you, is up to you. A teeny tiny bit of risk today might just make you feel that you can take on a bit more tomorrow, and a bit more the day after that.

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 6 points 5 days ago (4 children)

and there’s no leverage in government to stop them.

Do you think government will do anything at all in the coming weeks, months, years? I can't wrap my head around the situation at all. How does anyone with a slight bit of brains and a small grasp of history just accept this? It's so dystopian...

[–] usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml 15 points 5 days ago

There have been people fighting back. They just get 10x less media coverage than all the horrible things going on. This is part of what people mean when they say the revolution will not be televised

Many of their actions have been blocked in many of the federal courts and they are largely complying with those orders

There are many federal workers refusing to go along with all kinds of their action that slow them down

Many blue states and localities have already passed laws/ordinances to stop cooperating with the federal government ICE raid making them more difficult to carry out

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, and the US is so big that getting from bumfuck, Arizona to DC is a monumental task. Hell, even getting from bumfuck, NY to Albany NY is impossible for some. It's all on purpose. Most Americans are barely getting by.

To add to that, half the country wants this

[–] Bad_Engineering@fedia.io 13 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Over 50% of our population reads below a 6th year education and our school system has been steadily defunded and dumbed down over the past 40 years. A large portion of Americans only have 2 brain cells and they're both busy fighting for 3rd place. Ignorance and a lack of critical thinking skills is what has gotten us into this situation and I don't know if we have what it takes to get us out of it.

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 3 points 5 days ago

A large portion of Americans only have 2 brain cells and they’re both busy fighting for 3rd place

I'll steal this one. That's a marvelous quote

[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 4 days ago

How do we even get out of it? How do you reconcile the fact that Americans live in entirely separate realities to each other? How are we meant to educate and connect to a group of people who demonize education and connection? Like I honestly don't know what can be done for some of these people short of actual re-education camps, because they need a full mental debriefing.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The people that want to rule in the coming dictatorship run the government currently, the GOP holds every lever of power including the federal "police" force and has installed loyal "yes men." It's the whole reason you read about "buyouts" to let people resign, it's so they can all be replaced with people who have to undergo a new loyalty test they're implementing which apparently ask questions along the lines of "how do you feel the January 6th protestors were treated?" Looking for an answer of "unfairly" or something.

There is no force within the government that isn't under their control. There are individual judges scattered around the country that can try to stop the worst offences with sternly written letters, but with no method of enforcement, the paper just gets torn and ignored.

The people with "brains" are diseased with the greed virus and have looked to history, seeing that Germany was stopped by force and knowing there is no force that could stop us. There is no stopping fascism when it goes full tilt here in America, there is no outside force that has the capacity to free us. It will somehow have to happen from within and I honestly don't see that happening with all the new methods of technology driven monitoring and successful propaganda outlets.

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

there is no force that could stop us

... yet! I have some hope in the EU becoming stronger together and try to do something against it. I don't know what, but something...

[–] Uranus_Hz@lemm.ee 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

As a 50something American, it has never been weirder. While I saw this building during most of my life, I didn’t think I would actually live to see Americans voting to get rid of democracy.

But here we are - no longer a functioning democratic republic.

[–] afronaut@lemmy.cafe 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That American Exceptionalism is a real bitch, huh?

[–] Mesophar@lemm.ee 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Many of us never believed in American Exceptionalism, since we could see this country slipping backwards while the rest of the world continued to progress.

[–] afronaut@lemmy.cafe 4 points 4 days ago

It feels like American Exceptionalism was only seriously being challenged post-9/11.

[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 days ago

I smoke a lot of pot. Probably the strangest part is how...I still have to live? I still have to go into work tomorrow, I've still got bills to pay. People just go about their day like nothing is happening. You sit in the office and joke about the ongoing hostile government takeover. Meanwhile, federal employees are getting fucked, trans people are getting erased, they're building fuckin camps down in Guantanamo, people are fuckin starving outside shuttered USAID depots, and I still got work tomorrow. It's like I'm just sitting here waiting for somebody to put a gun in my hands and tell me "the revolution starts now." My local organizations are very focused on making sure people survive right now, which is a very good and noble focus to have, but I haven't really heard of anyone planning something serious to fight back.

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It's not a good time, let me tell ya.

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

Oh I can imagine... I really don't know what I would do if I was in the same situation

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 10 points 5 days ago

I'm not really sure I am coping. I've been seeing a decline for a long long time, but even though I knew it was possible I really didn't think we'd reach the point were we're pretty much going to be living under a dictatorship.

I knew that capitalist interests would continue to decrease everyone's standard of living, and I figured there would be some kind of reaction, I just never in a million years thought it would be the dumbfuck duo of Trump and Musk that actually harnessed the reaction in such a destructive manner.

It's been incredibly depressing to see the right get what they want time and time again making things worse for everyone and yet the propaganda machine somehow manages to create more right wingers.

But then again "the house always wins" and billionaires are the house so it shouldn't be a surprise. :/

[–] usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

My reaction is to get to work. The far-right is trying to take over much of the world, and it's going to take many of us to push it back. Don't wait for someone else to step up - everyone else is waiting too. Be the person who steps up. The people have power if we use it

There's groups like Indivisible doing directed pressure of those in government that need more people to contact their house representatives and senators. With that pressure for instance, they've started to get Democrats to use procedural tools to slow down senate confirmation of Trump's picks

There's movements like the 50501 protests in many cities in all 50 states yesterday, on Feb 5th, and there will be future protests

For anyone else reading this, don't think this can't happen wherever you are in the world, join the fight back locally. People in the US thought it couldn't happen to them too until it did. People in the UK thought Brexit wouldn't happen until it did. It can happen to you. Take what's happened in the US as a warning for you too to get involved in the push back

[–] sparky1337@ttrpg.network 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It’s difficult. You’ve got people that vote red or blue for no other reason than that’s what they’re told to do by peers/family. They don’t look at the possible outcomes, just that “they win”. And wanting to help people is almost looked down upon in many facets of society.

America has a critical thinking problem, coupled with an extreme lack of genuine empathy. Don’t let the “nice American” bit fool you if you ever travel here. The nice small talk is a front, and you can very easily find yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Health care is a great example. Or anything LGBTQ+.

Honestly, it’s a culture thing. It’s toxic as hell and hard to navigate.

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I visited New York years ago (2014, I think), but that's nothing like other regions in the States, I imagine. Where I live (Bruges), I sometimes stumble upon American tourists in bars, but due to the nature of the places I visit they're often more open minded.

They don’t look at the possible outcomes, just that “they win”

I think this way of thinking is a big problem in a democratic system. When you vote, you don't "win" or "lose". But maybe I compare this too much to the Belgian system. There's so many political parties to choose from and they have to form a coalition to represent the majority.

Out of curiosity: how do you see the next 4 years evolving? And do you have hope for the next elections?

[–] sparky1337@ttrpg.network 2 points 5 days ago

I’ve had this discussion with a friend of mine at length. He’s an “independent” and votes such. I think an approach to the 2 party system without ranked choice will always be a losing battle. We agree the system is broken, but have vastly different opinions on how we can approach it.

Trying to explain that systemic issues that go back generations cannot be solved overnight. Even 20 years would not be enough to see a large enough change in society, and how others are perceived. Think about it, our civil rights movement was only 60 years ago where people of color and whites were segregated and explicitly did not have equal rights.

Personally, and I hope I’m wrong, I see the next 4 years being a downward spiral. Those who voted for Trump are so closed minded, they grasp for anything that remotely supports their position.

It’s impossible to help those who do not want to be helped.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Americans, how do you cope?

Alcohol

What's your take on the situation?

I'm leaving the country. My friends are stockpiling and getting sterilized.

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Move to Belgium! We have lots of quality beers and delicious fries!

[–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I can vouch for that, Belgian fries are by far the superior kind. In a way I'm glad I don't live there or I'd have the circumference of a small planet by now.

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[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 days ago

All of the media about this stuff has felt increasingly like misleading propaganda to me since 2016, and getting an accurate, unbiased, big picture understanding of what is happening seems somewhere between a lot of work and actually impossible with so many people trying so hard to manipulate you. It is like reality television. I try to tune it out as I can but enough gets through.

I'm glad everyone is finally coming around to hating Twitter though.

[–] NakariLexfortaine@lemm.ee 5 points 5 days ago

Surviving.

Right now, it feels like all I can do. Keep going, keep reaching out to other members of the local LGBT community to help be a wall to lean on, keep telling my partners that I love them. Keep sheltering whatever tiny spark is left.

And making sure that spark is fed, in whatever little ways I can. Letting myself be more open, letting my colors flash a bit more. Trying to smile in the face of hate.

As to my take on the situation, it's fucked. There's no nuance to it. We're watching our siblings and ourselves being actively erased, waking up wondering when our actual existence will be a crime. Even if we make it through, things somehow get better, there's so much trust that has been completely broken.

Our government has pissed on lines that, even with a total change of leadership, will take time to repair. Both within the country and on a global scale. Many people within the country have done the same, there will be no taking back things said and done while they thought it was "okay". There's no forgetting the hate that has been exposed.

[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Sharing a border with them makes it a little less entertaining and a little more concerning

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Ooof I can imagine. Canada or Mexico?

[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Canada. The guy who doesn't joke is joking about annexing us.. ralph-wiggam-on-the-bus.jpg

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[–] gingersaffronapricat@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Every once in a while a group of mean spirited bullies would get elected to student government. But that didn’t really matter and was only a few months. This is real life and will have consequences for generations. Regan and W bush were both known for defUnding things like science, health, and education. We’re still dealing with ramifications from those defundings today. What we’re currently dealing with wants to make that look like nothing. I have my gripes with Clinton. But he managed to get the budget balanced without this kind of drama and malace. I refused to get sucked into watching this. Watching it only feeds it. I am trying to check on the situation periodically and complain to my representatives at intervals. It isn’t enough. But I’m doing what I can

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[–] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

lol, Donald Trump ripping apart the American democratic underpinnings of Check and Balances, and driving a wedge into post war Western alliance so deep Europe can no longer rely on the US to fire at Russia ever again, coupled with threatened worldwide reciprocal tariffs which are sure to plunge the country and rest of the world into the greatest global economic depression (coincidentally) since the 1930's. Nope, not much going on over here, how the weather where you are?

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 5 points 5 days ago

It was freezing this morning. Right now the sun is shining which results in mild temperatures. Going to be a lot warmer later this week!

[–] pet1t@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Isn't it ironic that Trumpyboy is ruining a lot of things righ-wing patriots care about and they themselves don't see the problem?

[–] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 7 points 5 days ago

Republicans would light their own children on fire, if it meant that "mud people" (look it up), MIGHT have it worse than they do. This is the philosophy that has driven the American Republican Party since the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and ensuing Southern Strategy. Christofacsist racism, misogyny, and homophobia. They could not argue the merits of their political aims on their face and win for 60 years, so their hatred drove them to support simply burning it all down, and that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing now.

[–] Hotspur@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago

I agree with your assessment: I find it both fascinating (who would have thought each new thing was actually possible, what insane bad idea will be launched today?) and horrifying.

Still working out the coping aspect, as what’s going on directly affects me and some of my family, but mostly switch between paying very close attention and trying to game out what the agenda is, and then taking a day to not pay attention and live in calm denial.

[–] peregrin5@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

We live in a blue bubble so I'm just ignoring everything the next four years and saving money.

My biggest dream is my state along with the other western states just decides to leave the US and we create our own thing.

[–] dxdydz@slrpnk.net 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The notion that this will all blow over in four years is absurd. The damage that has already been done will take years to repair. I understand wanting to put your head in the sand, but if you do that during a rising tide, you’re gonna drown.

[–] peregrin5@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago

No I get that thinking it will go back to normal in 4 years is optimistic. But there's nothing else I can do and being optimistic is the only thing keeping me from blowing my brains out.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 5 days ago

A lot of it depends on if your independently housed. If so you worry about losing it, if not you worry about ever having it.

[–] Jericho_Kane@lemmy.org 3 points 5 days ago

Has it ever not been weird, or are people just too young to remember. Like people lost their shit when obama wore a tan suit, or like dijon mustard. He got a nobel peace price while drone striking schools and being in 2 active wars. Bush was maybe a bit smarter than trump, but he was still an idiot son of an asshole. And just overall buffoon, that gor elected twice. I was too young to really care for clinton, but we all know how this went down. But every president you read up is either just a straight up criminal, or a spiteful asshole or both. And the ones who weren't comically evil just got fucked.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 3 points 4 days ago

I've heard people say they've never felt more american than they ever have since the last month. It's a different perspective for everyone. But it does concern me that some people base their entire perspectives on the first ten words they hear, and refuse to think further

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