Times Square : memes

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Another ironic example of Westerners not understanding what tank man was actually doing: stopping the tanks from leaving Tianmanmen Square. He was doing the opposite of an act of defiance against government involvement; he wanted them to be involved. Also, he left the scene unscathed when other civilians came and scurried him away:

Maybe Western media always show us a cropped version of the tank man photo, with Tianmanmen Square removed, because it doesn’t fit in with their narrative.

[Edit to replace deleted YouTube video.]

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Jesus fucking christ. I watched this shit happen. I watched the uncut footage air. That man was fucking pissed. He kept blocking the tanks while absolutely losing his shit screaming at the tank. Neither of us was there so neither of us knows why or what he was screaming but it was most definitely a clear act of defiance. You cannot in any way say that he was asking them to "go back" and "stay involved".

Here is the footage.

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/450068672/video/a-lone-man-stops-a-convoy-of-tanks-during-the-tiananmen-square-protests-in-beijing-1989.mp4?s=mp4-640x640-gi&k=20&c=CCERCYPtGDpeNsNsDmVMA5LAovD-byP0E_f4d1oHzgA%3D

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 week ago

That’s just a shorter version of the video I posted. And I don’t think the full footage ever aired on TV, because it’s around ten or twenty minutes long, mostly of him on top of the tank having a conversation with the crew.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

We have reached so many levels of irony that I do not know which one the original meme maker was on.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I assume he doesn’t know because almost no Westerners seem to.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Probably but the irony adds a layer of comedy. By the way the video you linked above seems to be broken.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago

Thanks, fixed.

[–] Midnitte 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Doesn't this rather ignore the fact that the day before the square was cleared of protestors, resulting in hundreds/thousands of deaths?

Considering that Tank Man was never heard from again after the photo was taken, I don't think you claim to understand his rationale for standing in front of the tank.

We can only assume the reason due to the continued censorship of the photo inside China to this day.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Doesn’t this rather ignore the fact that the day before the square was cleared of protestors, resulting in hundreds/thousands of deaths?

You can see people in the Square in this photo. No one died in the Square, though some people did die elsewhere in the downtown area, but not thousands.

Considering that Tank Man was never heard from again after the photo was taken, I don’t think you claim to understand his rationale for standing in front of the tank.

I can’t read his mind, no. But why else might he want to stop tanks from leaving?

We can only assume the reason due to the continued censorship of the photo inside China to this day.

It’s not censored inside China, though. Why do you think that it is, other than through our own Cold War propaganda that tells us so?

Columbia Journalism Review: The Myth of Tiananmen
The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.
1989 Tian'anmen Square riots
A Note on the Tiananmen Protests
Images from Tiananmen 1989 the West never shows (NSFW / CW: violence and death)
How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning
My Memories of Tiananmen Protest

[–] Midnitte 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Uh huh.

Well why don't we ask DeepSeek for more information about it?

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Your argument got fully dismantled with evidence and all you have is a bad comeback.

Click the link and check the pictures. Is that a peaceful protest?

[–] Midnitte 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I never said it was peaceful, but that doesn't validate State violence.

So you're just going to ignore reality? The fact that you can't look it up on Chinese media? The DeepSeek comment wasn't a bad comeback, it was the evidence you can see with your eyes, man.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

When people start burning down tanks you are well past the point of a "protest". This was a full on riot.

Tiannenmen was an American backed color revolution. America trained and funded those rioters and many of their leaders fled to America afterwards.

By the way are you aware that Tank Man did not block the tanks from going to the square, but blocked them from driving away from the square?

[–] Midnitte 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Well I guess we'll have to rewrite all of the wikipedia pages.

Perhaps we can invite someone from China to do so. Tell me, are the tank drivers available?

Oh, we should also have System of a Down rewrite their song - can't believe they got it wrong, silly band

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago

Well I guess we’ll have to rewrite all of the wikipedia pages.

Lol, not the shitlib Holy Scripture! Surely it never gets rewritten!

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

On the one hand you have been presented video and photographic evidence that there were armed riots and the army had their tanks burned down by these so called "protesters". There is no need to ask a Chinese person, not like you would believe them.

On the other hand, you present System Of A Down and Wikipedia which is notoriously Western biased when it comes to political subjects and straight up contradicts what we see in the images and videos.

Woe me which will I believe. The evidence of my eyes and ears or wikipedia.org?

[–] Grapho@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago

Right? If ten thousand Chinese people came up to them to tell them they'd just say, of course, they're brainwashed see see pee bots, else they'd uncritically believe western media

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Tiannenmen was an American backed color revolution.

I was with you speaking truth about what happened in the square vs. side streets, but now you went off the rails.

The protesters were Dengists. The whole thing started when Hu Yaobang died, making people fear that anti-reformist forces within the party would get the upper hand. They were backing up one faction against the other, predictably, the hardliners wanted to crack down on them just as they wanted to get rid of the reformers. That's why this turned ugly instead of getting resolved in the reformist way, which they were busy doing, having conferences with the protestors.

Absolutely, 110%, Chinese-internal politics.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

Background: Weeks prior to the violent escalation of the protests, the CIA maintained a network of informants among the student protesters as well as within Chinese intelligence services, which it used to monitor the situation.[9] . The CIA actively aided the student activists in forming their movement, providing them various equipment including typewriters and fax machines according to a U.S. official.[9]

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[–] Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

True
State violence should not be validated

A recent mainstream example would be the Jan 6 protests in USAmerica. The protest about concerns regarding the legitamacy of the USA's elections was maligned as domestic terrorism and a coup-attempt by some, right?
A protestor got fatally shot and killed by the state appartus.

CW: Suicide
4 police officers involved who were involved in the suppression took their own lives too. Likely due to strain they faced from the state appartus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

Whether peaceful protests are allowed is a basic litmus for any modern democracy. All these incidents show how democratic checks and balances are required to discourage the violent arm of the state.

Would this be an example of how it could be seen in different pov's?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5__ESiklA1A

I do oppose state violence, but I doubt Western narratives too.

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It literally is censored in China. No one learns about this in school. No one sees this photo. It was a shock to my family to learn about this. Are you Chinese? Have you been to China? I don’t get why your comments seem to want to sow doubt rather than provide answers.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I've talked to Chinese foreign exchange students who learned about it in school

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Exchange students, so they said they learned about it in high school or in college? Well both of our comments are anecdotal, based on those we know, so I am not sure. I only know no one I know learned about it, but it could have changed.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

I dont know when but within the context of conversations it was before they left China

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That’s a blank link.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Hah, the video must have been taken down last week. I figured it might eventually be.

Here’s another:

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Upon watching the video then reading further, they seem to have left the square to clear nearby streets. Your comment says he wanted them to stay. Therefore you’re saying he wanted them not to continue clearing the area? Or are you saying he wanted them to continue to maintain the square?

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

He seems to be blocking their exiting the square, so it appears he wanted them to remain in it. I don’t know where the tanks were going. Perhaps back to base, perhaps somewhere else.

Edit to add: Back to base seems most likely, because this was on June 5th, the day after the protests had ended.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago

I think he was just a weirdo

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 1 points 1 week ago

They cleared the side streets after this. How does blocking equal wanting them to stay? Seems like wanting them to stop.

[–] Pili@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

they seem to have left the square to clear nearby streets

That sounds so strange, how do we expect them to clear entire streets if they can't even get past a single guy armed with grocery bags?

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[–] culprit@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 week ago (2 children)

https://streamable.com/unjnw9

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.org 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

the murican cops are all fucking disgusting violent fascist pigs.

[–] ReakDuck@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago

Always was like that

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Tank Man survived, but not everyone was as lucky...

Official government announcements shortly after the event put the number who died at around 300

On 19 June, Beijing Party Secretary Li Ximing reported to the Politburo that the government's confirmed death toll was 241, including 218 civilians (of which 36 were students), 10 PLA soldiers, and 13 People's Armed Police, along with 7,000 wounded.[233][234] On 30 June, Mayor Chen Xitong said that the number of injured was around 6,000.

(Other estimates are much higher but still. And I don't think this happened in the actual square, but rather in other places in Beijing)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#Death_toll

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Nobody denies that hundreds died all over Beijing that day, what's called into question is using the "Tank Man" image out of context and telling everyone that he was run over. It's a mythologizing of another country's tragedy for the purpose of twisting events in the favor of Western interests.

Think about it another way: why is it that the US, BBC, etc readily and repeatedly report on a mythologized version of the events when they know that the truth is closer to what you say?

[–] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 6 points 1 week ago

Good point.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago

I was just bringing context to the Tank Man/USA cops comparison. I didn't think anyone was here defending things or spreading false info.

[–] RedSnt@feddit.dk 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

While the stroad seem realistic, seeing a pedestrian carrying groceries doesn't seem like americana iconography.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 week ago

Blocking the road is not a valid form of protest! runs over pedestrian 🤠

[–] Mio@feddit.nu 6 points 1 week ago

Tesla would be screwed the first time they see a new sign. Machine Learning is about learning from the past but if you don't have seen it before you might be screwed. But humans can actually think,. even stop and Google the new sign.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Somehow I knew that this would be controversial here. It's a very funny meme though

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It isn't that controversial actually, seems pretty unified with only a couple people getting upset.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Idk there seems to be a big fight especially under this reply and more fights and upset around the comments. Maybe we set the bar for controversy differently.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Only a few people are actually pushing back, though. I wouldn't call that controversy, for such a context that is usually far worse.

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[–] AntelopeRoom@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago

Not Times Square, should be Lafayette Square.

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