this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
38 points (100.0% liked)

Solarpunk

224 readers
4 users here now

The space to discuss Solarpunk itself and Solarpunk related stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere.

What is Solarpunk?

Join our chat: Movim or XMPP client.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

First of all, detergent pods are for dummies who cannot measure the right amount of detergent for a job and those who don’t know that water hardness is a factor. They are for convenience zombies who cannot be bothered to think. So from the very start, pods are not for solarpunks.

Someone told me they had a problem with their dishwasher because undisolved gelatin sacs were gumming up their drain. The linked article goes into clogs. This article (if you can get past the enshitification) says there is research on an environmental impact by pod sacks. So that’s also antithetical to solarpunkness.

So do it right. Fuck pods. They cost more anyway. Buy powdered detergent if you have soft water (or if your dishwasher has a built-in water softener) and use less (to avoid etching). If you have hard water, either use liquid detergent or just use a bigger dose of powder.

top 14 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] apotheotic 29 points 2 weeks ago

As someone who uses standard detergent and not pods:

Fuck the language used here. Dear god. "Dummies" "convenience zombies". I guess nobody has mobility issues or accessibility needs. Or perhaps someone is so deep into their depressive spiral that the moderate convenience offered by pods is the difference between them doing their washing at all or not.

I agree with the message here but absolutely fuck this holier than thou gatekeeping bullshit.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

If you use a convenience option, use the strips. If not that, use powder. They reduce container waste and shipping weight.

Also, better to lead your argument with your point, not shaming your audience. Maybe folks have mobility issues and pouring is hard.

[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I agree. But it's kind of hard to find where to buy the non-pod version nowadays.

[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

In the past couple months Google has become quite hostile toward front-ends that previously made it possible for Tor users to reach their content. And I don’t have a good connection so I can’t do videos anyway.

But indeed, it’s hard to find proper detergent. I have to go to a big store of a big grocery chain to get it. But it’s worth it on the basis of price alone. Buying a couple kilos of powder gives the most loads for the money. IIRC the pods were twice the cost of powder when comparing a promotional sales price on pods.

(edit) Oh, but speaking of youtube, video rBO8neWw04 (which I have a saved a copy of) goes into pods. The guy makes an interesting point: pods discourage the use of detergent in the prewash. Though I think he over stresses that.

[–] JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I hadn't realized how lucky we were - we have one of those crunchy refill stores in town, where you can bring your own containers and buy various powders and liquids (primarily cleaning supplies though they do some seasonings as well. I wish I could buy orange juice that way (I basically gave up on drinking it because I didn't need any more plastic bottles). We switched to various dilutions of castile soap for most things, and a generic dishwasher powder for our little countertop rig.

[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 3 points 2 weeks ago

The video I posted is the second version of the video you mention. He rerecorded it with some changes or so.

[–] neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

In South Korea, but I assume I powder is difficult to get nowadays everywhere.

[–] XTL@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago

Well, I've never had problems finding it in Finland and still don't. Generalising assumptions are going to be wrong.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

How can you not measure detergent? I don't think I've ever seen a washing machine without a lip of plastic that clearly says "fill line" on it. You just don't go past that lip! Heck, just use the cap of the detergent (if liquid) and most powdered ones I've used come with a measuring spoon!

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I recall someone in #chemistry (on freenode) talking about measuring detergent. He could have been a nutter, but stressed the importance of measuring the right amount, saying get a scale and weigh it according to the manual.

The manual for one of my machines is shit.. says look at the program table for detergent amount - then it’s omitted from the table. But what was useful was the manual said what the numbers meant. The lines marked “15” and “25” are for 15cm³ and 25cm³. The brim is 40cm³ and the prewash cup is 5cm³. Those are volumes, not weight. So I calculated the weight I needed at one point and IIRC it turned out that 15g of powder came out to 15cm³ (lucky me!). I don’t recall how I figured out that I needed 15g.

Anyway, these are the variables that influence the amount of detergent to use:

  • load size (some manuals make that a factor, but it’s unclear why because it’s always the same amount of water in the tub. The guy in #chemistry seemed to think it was important)
  • water hardness
  • program selected (I have ~6 or so programs plus a ½-load button, so effectively 12; some have a prewash cycle, some not)
  • type of detergent

Some of the short programs imply that slow solving detergents (tablets) should be avoided.

I still have not figured out what the ½-load button really does. Manual just says press it if you have less than half a load to save on water and power. That’s it. WTF? So I asked the manufacturer and they repeated the same useless answer, but said fill only 1 rack. WTF.. which rack? I wanted to know what the ½-load button actually changed the program so I could use it wisely. How does the machine know which rack I chose? I think the “load only one rack” answer from the manufacturer is bullshit. I’ll probably sprawl out my partial loads. The manual should be telling people how much water is used with this setting. I have no idea how it saves on energy since the program choice dictates a fixed water temp. Maybe it just comes down to the fact that it has less water to heat. In any case, I should probably use less detergent on partial loads but the manual doesn’t give the calculation or even enough info to be able to calculate it.

Too much detergent → etching (and waste of detergent)
Too little detergent → repetition needed, which wastes water, energy, and detergent

If you don’t care about etching, then using too much is probably not a big deal.

[–] the_artic_one@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

GDI, pods seemed really good on the surface: liquid detergent with less water to reduce the amount of carbon used to transport it.

I'm no material scientist but I suspect they probably could have made pods out of materials which are actually biodegradable under normal conditions but chose to use this liquid plastic junk instead to save a buck.

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think liquids are heavier to transport than solids because solid detergent is more concentrated (no water). Liquid detergent (which comes in all viscocities) still has its place: for people with hard water. But apart from that I think solid detergent is the best for the environment.

There are those solid tablets which are like powder pressed together. Sometimes those are in a plastic wrapper that needs to be removed before use (yikes), and sometimes they are in a disolving gelatin like the liquid pods. But I guess the sacks of powder need not be as thick as the liquid ones.