this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024
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[–] archomrade@midwest.social 46 points 3 months ago (3 children)

For those in here that take offense to this distinction:

2 party political systems function to collapse diverse political perspectives into one of two camps and normalize an 'average' view for both parties. Leftists take issue with this collapse because it erases dissenting views within each party in service of defeating an 'other' at the expense of pursuing our real political goals.

The label matters to those of us who want to make the point that the US democratic party does not really represent our interests; at-best they represent a less-objectionable flavor of the same ideological framework, but one that needs to be dismantled all the same.

"Stop trying to divide us!" is a refrain spoken by those who are better served by the party than we are.

Put another way: "We are not the same"

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 24 points 3 months ago

I think the current best demonstration on this is how hard people are pushing Mark Kelly as VP.

They push a center-right president onto the stage and then dangle another "centrist" to try and, what? Appeal to Never Trumper Republicans? Racists?

How about you offer actual progressives some goddamn enticement for once and offer it to Jamaal Bowman, who the Dems primaried in favor of a genocidal AIPAC stooge?

[–] seahorse@midwest.social 8 points 3 months ago

Very well put

[–] SteveFromMySpace@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Every single democrat politician is “radical leftist [name]”

It’s the new communist. They just throw the word out all the time making it functionally meaningless.

[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 6 points 3 months ago

They didn't like John McCain, so they lumped him in with the rest of us.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 18 points 3 months ago

Meh, though the meme is true, most Americans would say liberals are EVERYONE left of center, and conservatives are EVERYONE right of center.

[–] theoretiker@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

When you have only two parties you can only have one dimension.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Using neo-liberals to define liberals is like using national socialism to define socialism.

It's authoritarian propaganda.

[–] seahorse@midwest.social 15 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Libs and leftists are different

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Sure, but liberals are still left wing, and saying they're not is just making enemies out of other left wingers, with is a long standing left tradition.

You'd all get so much further if you recognised allies in one area don't have to be allies in all areas. You can all have your own opinions and work together where it suits you towards set goals, rather than name calling, "no true Scotsman"-ing and in fighting. It honestly feels like the right have infiltrated the left at times, and just turned them on each other.

[–] seahorse@midwest.social 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Capitalists are not left wing.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

You don't get to gatekeep "left wing" behind your nonsense failed ideology.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 11 points 3 months ago

I don't think he invented dialectical materialism

[–] seahorse@midwest.social 11 points 3 months ago

Words have meaning bud

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 months ago

I've never met a liberal who was left of center

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Easy way to distinguish them

Liberals - Implement reforms that maintain capitalism. Support oppressed identities/communities so that they can achieve equality.

Leftists - Complete revolution of the economy to destroy economic social classes. All identities/communities are inherently equal except for oppressors.

Examples:

Economic

  • Liberals - Progressive tax code to redistribute wealth from the wealthy to the impoverished. People with disabilities are given enough to survive.

  • Leftists - No one is capable of becoming wealthy. Impoverished people exist only if they truly reject economic support from society. People with disabilities are given even more than the general population to help their quality of life match able-bodied people.

Social

  • Liberals - Same-sex marriage is recognized by the government

  • Leftists - Government? Marriage? lol no one has authority to define your personal relationships. Go live your life. Do whatever as long as you don't hurt others.

[–] SRo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 months ago

You really are back to your bs. I hope you know what you wrote is a bunch of horse shit?

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

TBF there are about seven mutually exclusive definitions of “liberal” in each country.

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not so much "in each country" as "between countries", right? I'm European and in my home country "liberal" tends to mean Neoliberal

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 months ago

Here too, but colloquially it means something like “unburdened by tradition” or “freedom loving”, which is, well, not how our liberals roll.

[–] chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

You can burn liberals on the same pyre as magats and cops.

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago

An anarchist believes in liberty for people to live freely

A capitalist believes in liberty to freely exploit people

Unfortunately the capitalists also own the means of mass communication and have gaslit the socialists into thinking liberty only means the latter!

Resist imperialist redefinition of words!

[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Liberalism is left (progressive) absolutely

Liberal Parties are generally not.

[–] seahorse@midwest.social 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The definition of Liberal is about indiscriminate personal freedoms, so it is more opposed to Authoritarian Right than anything else.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Neoliberal is neither leftist nor liberal

(Under the context of most of these comments)

[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Idk the fuq a neoliberal is but the definition of liberal is the same as it always has been and is the topic of discussion.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ok so obviously you are unarmed in this battle of wits

[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Oooh, you really burned me there

[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 3 points 3 months ago

My apologies, I didn't realize you were the only one allowed to insult others. I suppose some animals must be more equal than others?

[–] Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 months ago

Welcome to the No true Scotsman party.

[–] Birbatron@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The thing I love about lemmy is instead of neoliberals and weird racists silencing Leftists like reddit, it's Leftists and Social democrats constantly at each other's throats.

The latter is much more amusing

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The latter is much more amusing

same here; but likely for different reasons.

i like learning about viewpoints that differ from mine; i think they help me question my own beliefs and, usually, it re-enforces them.

[–] Birbatron@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, on reddit, if you're not the mainstream reddit opinion you have to hide in an echo chamber, if you are the mainstream, then most of the platform is one giant echo chamber.

It doesn't help that they're all exceptionally rude and confrontational

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

wholly agreed and i find it troublesome that the reddit refugees have pushed so hard to turn some lemmyverse instances into mini reddits, complete with that mainstream reddit opinion.

lemmy.world has become my main source for finding opposing view points to learn from and, fortunately for the entire lemmyverse, the engagement is (very-very-VERY) slightly better than reddit.

[–] Birbatron@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

As an Egyptian, I've had to constantly talk back against multiple people with the usual "all middle eastern countries are iran" bullshit, I thought I'd escaped it when I left reddit, but nope, apparently in Egypt Hijab is forced by law, I just didn't know Egyptian law and needed a European ~~redditor~~ lemming(?) to give us all a white-savioresque lecture on it.

Many people don't know this (surprisingly), but reddit is racist as fuck, like one of the most racist platforms I've ever been on, it's really well cloaked racism (usually, r/Europe and r/Worldnews are openly racist) , but it's everywhere, and OH GOD the white Savior Complex so many redditors have is infuriating.

But hey, at least on lemmy I can correct it, on reddit I'd be swarmed by westerners who think they know more about my country than I, a person living there, do, and will proceed to tell me I'm very wrong.

They push this so far, I've had them lecture me, someone FROM GIZA, on the "correct" position of the pyramids.