this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024
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transgender

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Welcome to lemmy.ml/c/transgender! This is a community for sharing transgender or gender diverse related news articles, posts, and support for the community.

Rules:

  1. Bigotry, transphobia, racism, nationalism, and chauvinism are not allowed.

  2. Selfies are not permitted for the safety of users.

  3. No surveys or studies.

  4. Debating transgender rights is not allowed. Transgender rights are human rights. Debating transgender healthcare is not allowed. Transgender healthcare is a necessity.

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  6. If you are cis, do not downvote posts. We don't like you manipulating our community.

  7. Posts about dysphoria/trauma/transphobia should be NSFW tagged for community health purposes.

  8. For both cis and trans people: Please alter your username (if possible) to include pronouns (or lack thereof, or questioning) so no one misgenders anyone. details. This rule is important for maintaining a safe place. If you can't change your ID, please let a mod know and include it in your bio.

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New rule: if you support transgender people or are trans, please change your username (if your instance allows it) to include your preferred pronouns (lemmy.ml)
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by marcie@lemmy.ml to c/transgender@lemmy.ml
44 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

If you have no preferred pronouns, just say (none) or something

This will help make people feel more comfortable in this comm and has a side effect of showing you support trans people when making comments in other communities. It will also make reactionaries seethe and make it easier for mods to purge them, and make trans people feel safer all over the fediverse.

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[–] FJW@discuss.tchncs.de 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So in other words, people who are still eggs, closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy! Creating an environment in which not stating pronouns can be taken as not supporting trans people is likewise transphobic. The practical consequences of these decisions are extremely bad and I strongly request that you undo it!

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

If they have a practical concern with this they can say something like (use name) (unsure) (any) after their username. Just to verify, are you trans yourself? This is common practice in basically every trans space.

Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy!

No, it's not.

closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

I would suggest they create a new account for exploring these feelings in trans spaces, then. Its more secure to do that anyways. He/him is the assumed choice in most internet spaces which misgenders a wide swathe of trans people, of course I would prefer it to be they/them, as its better if you don't know the person's pronouns. The reality though is we need to implement these things in steps so people can properly understand why its important to use they/them when you don't know someone's gender. I still get regularly misgendered with she/her in my name, these people that purposefully misgender must be removed from this space to make it safer, and by having more people with pronouns in username, it will make that job easier.

[–] FJW@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

If they have a practical concern with this they can say something like (use name) (unsure) (any) after their username. Just to verify, are you trans yourself? This is common practice in basically every trans space.

Yes, and that is WHY I’m so vocal about it, because I have experience with environments where the choice really was to misgender myself or to risk looking like a biggot. It sucked and that

Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy!

No, it’s not.

It forces trans people who are early in their transition and eggs to pick between two really bad options. That makes it functionally (not intentionally) transphobic.

closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

I would suggest they create a new account for exploring these feelings in trans spaces, then. Its more secure to do that anyways.

A big point of something like Lemmy is that you don’t need separate accounts in all the communities that you are in and trans communities should put the bar low for people who are looking to explore things. It may not always be the safest thing to do, but reality is messy and people who are just kinda uncomfortable with what they have may still be far away from understanding.

He/him is the assumed choice in most internet spaces which misgenders a wide swathe of trans people, of course I would prefer it to be they/them, as its better if you don’t know the person’s pronouns. The reality though is we need to implement these things in steps so people can properly understand why its important to use they/them when you don’t know someone’s gender. I still get regularly misgendered with she/her in my name, these people that purposefully misgender must be removed from this space to make it safer, and by having more people with pronouns in username, it will make that job easier.

Nobody says you can’t have your pronouns in your username if you want them too, but forcing other people to do the same is really reaching into other people’s personal zone to an extend that I do consider inappropriate.

[–] dontpanic@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 3 months ago

Thank you for sticking up for us.

Sincerely, someone deep in the closet for reasons of personal safety.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yes, and that is WHY I’m so vocal about it, because I have experience with environments where the choice really was to misgender myself or to risk looking like a biggot. It sucked and that It forces trans people who are early in their transition and eggs to pick between two really bad options. That makes it functionally (not intentionally) transphobic.

While I appreciate your experience, and of course all of us have been questioning at some point, it is important for building a thriving trans community. The rule stays.

A big point of something like Lemmy is that you don’t need separate accounts in all the communities that you are in and trans communities should put the bar low for people who are looking to explore things. It may not always be the safest thing to do, but reality is messy and people who are just kinda uncomfortable with what they have may still be far away from understanding.

Creating a new account is safer, if your argument is you want things to be safer for trans people (re: not showing pronouns in ID), you must also understand that creating a new account is safer for exploration. Your argument is weak.

If they feel nothing suits them they can say (none) or (use name)

Nobody says you can’t have your pronouns in your username if you want them too, but forcing other people to do the same is really reaching into other people’s personal zone to an extend that I do consider inappropriate.

I care about making a safe trans community, and making sure people aren't misgendered is part of that. This is how you do that. If you're not for making sure people are gendered properly, leave. 🤷‍♀️ But I suggest you consider it and keep an open mind about it, I genuinely think you have not seen the benefits of this policy.

[–] socialpankakemix@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

what is the difference between putting (unsure) or (any) and just not having them? you would still basically have to ask or assume you picked the right one.

on a side note, making "requirements" to be trans is a slippery slope, and nobody should have to prove, or our themselves, just by existing and participating in the world.

and why should it matter if I know I'm interacting with a trans person? why can't we all just treat each other with respect, and if we want to find out more about each other individually we can just ask?

and while your solution of "just make another account" could work for some it simply won't work for all

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

what is the difference between putting (unsure) or (any) and just not having them? you would still basically have to ask or assume you picked the right one.

the point is to affirm trans identities, by putting those in you are showing you support and affirm trans identities.

on a side note, making “requirements” to be trans is a slippery slope, and nobody should have to prove, or our themselves, just by existing and participating in the world.

showing pronouns is not a requirement to be trans, but it is a requirement going forward for this community in order to remove reactionaries. people will be asked to change their IDs. if they cant due to their instance, thats fine.

and why should it matter if I know I’m interacting with a trans person? why can’t we all just treat each other with respect, and if we want to find out more about each other individually we can just ask?

the rule explicitly states cis people should show pronouns as well. knowing if someone is trans online (and seeing many others) does have practical benefits in attracting more trans people to a space, though. but this isnt outing yourself as trans, just showing pronouns.

and while your solution of “just make another account” could work for since it simply won’t work for all

it certainly does work for all, it takes a couple of seconds

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Although I'm a cis woman, I have never felt especially pleased with being lumped into this category. I have never listed my pronouns before, ever, and I avoid listing my gender if possible, because I do not want the first thing people to know about me be my gender and then view me through that lens. I have always appreciated the trans community overlooks my femaleness and sees me instead. In real life daily, to my great displeasure I am lumped into one of two boxes; the internet is a welcome reprieve.

I am not nonbinary, I do not prefer they/them. I go by she/her, but I don't want to advertise this. I have my own struggles with gender, even if I'm ultimately cis, and forcing me to report my gender in my username seems frankly gender essentialist.

I did not choose my pronouns.

What should I write? (none) is wrong, because I can be referred to with pronouns.

(ally) might be nice, except in LGBTIA+, "Ally" implies being straight, and I'm not straight.

How about an empty ()? to indicate I acknowledge the system but opt out personally. Or something cute like (friend), or comrade (but I don't know all the implications of that)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

an empty () is completely valid, imo. or even (friend) or (ally) or (any) or something. i definitely would recommend discussing with yor, she could probably help explain why this is a rule, but i get you.

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@lemmy.today 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You can be a she/her NB btw. If you feel a disconnect with your gender or don't feel connected to it, you're free to consider yourself trans.

Anyways, I don't see any problem with avoiding pronouns. Personally, I used to be in that camp - I wanted to be supportive of trans people, but I didn't want to list he/him, but didn't think I was trans enough to use other pronouns... So I just did not put them.

(ally) might be nice, except in LGBTIA+, "Ally" implies being straight, and I'm not straight.

This could be interpreted as aro/ace erasure/exclusion btw by putting the word "Ally" so close to the acronym.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Aro/ace are valid and are LGBTIA+. What I mean is, "ally" implies straight, and I'm not.

Gender is a spectrum, and I consider myself cis, even if there are others more cis than me. Most of my troubles with gender come from me feeling society is at fault for treating me differently because of my sex. I think most educated women express such opinions, and that doesn't make us enbies.

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@lemmy.today 3 points 3 months ago

Fair. I think it's quite reasonable women hide they're women on the internet given how they are often treated. Just wanted to point out NBies are a wide spectrum and what pronouns you use doesn't need to dictate your gender.

Guess it could it be comparable to being a 1 or 6 on the Kinsey scale and not considering yourself bi because the label doesn't convey any useful information about your attraction? Imo, which label you choose at that point is up to you and I don't think it seems biphobic or NBphobic to choose one of the binary labels.

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

[Sincere] why when they can be in my bio?

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

The issue is people have to click your name to see it, if its in your ID people can see it immediately. lowers risk for misgendering and people can see what you prefer at a glance. also, at a glance, people will know you support trans people

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

why do people in general need to know this at a glance? Can they not tell by the content of my posts that I support trans people? I thought this rule was to help mods make quick judgments.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

quick judgments, see if someone is trans supportive, also helps gender you right

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Okay, thank you for explaining!

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

no problem, any time

[–] AgriasArseid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I didn't even notice you could alter your display name like this. Almost a year here and somehow missed this feature.

EDIT:
And apparently its only working on my blahaj.zone account (lol how appropriate)
my beehaw account is not letting me update the name
and my fedia account, which uses mbin doesn't even have it as an option

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

thanks for the info! we're trying to work within the constraints we have

[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

you can change your username? but i like my username the way it is. so if i did this, i'd be like, juliebean_she_her_her_hers_herself@lemm.ee? bit of a mouthful, innit?

[–] apotheotic 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, there's your username and the thing that's displayed above your posts. My username is apotheotic, my display name is apotheotic (she/her)

[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

huh, okay, today i learned. now that you've mentioned it i do see your display name if i click through to your user page, but not on your posts/comments, and idk how to change mine, but if other folks can see that, i'll look into it if i see a way.

[–] apotheotic 1 points 3 months ago

Interesting!

[–] bountygiver@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

this would be a good case for lemmy to start supporting flairs like reddit does. No shame in copying legitimately useful features.

[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Can yall stop pushing your beliefs on people /lh

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

what is lh

[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Light hearted

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

oh ok thanks!

[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 3 points 3 months ago

Yw

[–] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I just did (might take some time to propagate)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

💖

[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Any idea if that's something I can do on slrpnk.net? I'm on mobile right now, and not seeing an option.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You might have to login on desktop, I'm not familiar with solar punk (and if people mention their instance doesnt allow name changes i'll make a tally of instances that dont and are exempt) but if you go to your settings usually it will have an editable text box for your display name

[–] NOOBMASTER@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

it doesn't want to save my changes 🤔

[–] elfpie 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I understand the sentiment and would respect the decision, even if I don't agree, but there are problems of consistency. You say people should make new accounts if necessary to explore their trans identity, but you'll allow instance wide exemptions.

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It would be nice if proper support for pronouns was added in the first place, but that's also clearly not going to become a priority unless people openly demand it, so here we are with an inconsistent compromise.

Pretty much every IRL trans space I've ever been in has started with name + pronouns, it's not a big ask and it normalizes being respectful of other people.

[–] elfpie 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, I didn't want to make a bad faith argument, but I think it's necessary to clarify the issue.

The exemption will allow bigots from those instances to still have access and the benefit of doubt. People who might have valid reasons to not disclose openly their position will have to create a new account.

If pronouns are a safety measure, there's a big flaw in making exemptions. Will the users know the people they are talking are not marked because they can't be.

Just a thought. Maybe make it a required opener or signature.

(he / him / queer)

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago

I do like the idea of mandating including pronouns in your first post in a thread if your instance doesn't support them, rather than an exemption

I don't really consider requiring pronouns to be a safety measure, more of a vibes check.

Frankly considering how normalized being transphobic on main is, I like the idea of pushing people to being supportive of trans people on main.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 months ago

My username says it already. I wish everyone the best.

[–] mathemachristian@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Suggestions for when it becomes too long? Would ♂ work? I have 4 extra characters to work with.

With the standard length being 24 characters " [he/him]" would reduce it to 15 characters, " [she/her]" to 14 and " [they/them]" to 12 characters, which is really short for a username imo.

Lemm.ee apparently has it further reduced to 20.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

could do (he)

[–] mathemachristian@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

🤦 thanks

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

np 💖