this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024
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[–] optissima@possumpat.io 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Why not? The bell riots themselves was one of the steps to class consciousness, something we desperately need now. Yeah people were hurt, but how different is that than BLM and other rights protests being mass arrested or openly fired upon these days?

[–] bigfoot@lemm.ee 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

That is a very machivellian attitude. I don't believe that hurting people who aren't a threat in the name of "progress" is justified, even if it were somehow a shortcut to utopia, which it's not.

[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

All of human political activity boils down to violence. If pacifism were a legitimate strategy then we wouldn't be in our current situation.

[–] bigfoot@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I didn't say anything about pacifism, but I also disagree with your proposition equating violence and politics. Violence is a breakdown of politics. Politics, almost definitionally, is how a people settle disputes without violence.

Politics is how how decisions are made in groups. If one person or group is forcing their will upon others, then no decision or compromise between the parties can be said to have been made freely. And therefore it cannot be truthfully described as following a political process.

[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

Pacifism is an ideology centered on political change through nonviolence. Maybe you didn't explicitly say it, but you might as well have. Can you provide a source on violence being a result of political breakdown and not intrinsic to politics itself? How do current regimes uphold their power?

Politics is, more or less, how decisions are made in groups. Making a decision doesn't preclude violence. Wars are political and their entire point is violence. Colonialism was foundational to the politics of the last 3+ centuries and it was incredibly violent. Besides vibes, what evidence do you have to support the claim that politics aren't violent?

[–] luxyr42@lemmy.dormedas.com 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Diplomacy is settling disputes without violence.

[–] bigfoot@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

It is, but diplomacy refers to disputes between peoples. Politics refers to disputes within a people.

[–] optissima@possumpat.io 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I believe that people should defend their right to exist. Do you feel otherwise?

[–] bigfoot@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I will engage with you in the context of your original proposition but I will not engage with Gish Galloping.

[–] optissima@possumpat.io 5 points 4 months ago

It's only Gish galloping if you edit your original message so they appear disconnected. You'd said all hurting was wrong, and my question was a direct followup to that.

[–] fern@lemmy.autism.place 5 points 4 months ago

OP looking like

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[–] hopesdead@startrek.website 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I have a bumper sticker from the same artist.

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 2 points 4 months ago

Looks like a window sticker but I'll allow it this time.

[–] Snowcano@startrek.website 1 points 4 months ago

That Janeway sticker is melting my heart! If this isn't added as a default emoji in the new iOS, Tim Cook is going to get a sternly worded letter from me!