this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024
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Indiana

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Let's Play Date, Marry, Kill...with Roundabouts.

What are your thoughts as Indiana starts adopting these modern traffic control measures (Europe has been doing them since...forever)?

Most people I talk to either love or hate these intersections. For some reason, I can't find people who are indifferent to them very often.

According to the Carmel's city webpage: "Carmel is internationally known for its roundabout network. Since the late 1990’s Carmel has been building and replacing signalized intersections with roundabouts. Carmel now has more than 150 roundabouts, more than any other city in the United States."

"The number of injury accidents in Carmel have reduced by about 80 percent and the number of accidents overall by about 40 percent."

https://www.carmel.in.gov/government/departments-services/engineering/roundabouts#:~:text=Carmel%20is%20internationally%20known%20for,city%20in%20the%20United%20States.

General PROs / CONs

  • Up to a 90 percent reduction in fatalities
  • 76 percent reduction in injury crashes
  • 30-40 percent reduction in pedestrian crashes
  • Reduces the severity of crashes
  • Keeps pedestrians safer
  • Roundabouts reduce the number of potential accident points within an intersection, 75 percent fewer conflict points than four-way intersections
  • No signal equipment to install and repair, savings estimated at an average of $5,000 per year in electricity and maintenance costs
  • Service life of a roundabout is 25 years (vs. the 10-year service life of signal equipment)
  • Reduces pollution and fuel use
  • 30-50 percent increase in traffic capacity, improves traffic flow for intersections that handle a high number of left turns, reduces need for turn lanes
  • While roundabouts can handle moderate to heavy traffic volumes more efficiently than traditional intersections, they may experience congestion and delays during periods of extremely high traffic volumes or if not designed properly for the anticipated traffic flow
  • Pedestrians and cyclists may face challenges navigating roundabouts, particularly multi-lane roundabouts with higher traffic volumes. Proper design considerations, such as providing safe crossing points, adequate sight lines, and dedicated pedestrian/cyclist facilities, are crucial to ensure their safety.
  • Drivers unfamiliar with roundabouts may initially experience confusion or hesitation when navigating them, potentially leading to increased risks or delays until they become accustomed to the traffic patterns.
  • Roundabouts generally require a larger footprint and more land area

https://www.in.gov/indot/traffic-engineering/roundabouts/#:~:text=Up%20to%20a%2090%20percent,points%20than%20four%2Dway%20intersections (CONs came from general searching, LLM compilation)

Indianapolis and the surrounding suburbs are implementing them more frequently now, how about your city?

Did you know that traffic circles are different from roundabouts? PA has a little comparison chart that was interesting (If you're into that sort of thing): https://www.penndot.pa.gov/PennDOTWay/pages/Article.aspx?post=24

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[–] criitz@reddthat.com 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

They are superior intersections. The only complaints about them are 'I don't like them' or 'people here don't know how to use them', both of which are just symptoms of not having used them enough yet.

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 4 points 7 months ago

people here don't know how to use them', both of which are just symptoms of not having used them enough yet.

Idk, where I live they only have two roundabouts in the entire city and they are on the same street that's primarily used for work commuting. They've both been there since the 60's, people still suck at them.

I'm not sure if it's just that people don't use them often enough, or if it's just certain demographics like the elderly just have a hard time learning past a certain age.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There are also complaints by truck drivers.

To them it is easier to drive straight than to swerve.

Also, they need to be able to quickly depart before the next car comes along, which is notorious when dragging a heavy load.

[–] criitz@reddthat.com 2 points 7 months ago

They probably shouldn't be used where big trucks are driving

[–] redfox@infosec.pub 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Personally, I went from hating this idea, to loving it after I starting driving in them.

After spending time driving in Carmel, I can't stand traffic lights anymore. Everything got downgraded in my mind: Traffic lights became stop signs, stop signs became yield, yield became...well still yield (I'm not a sociopath).

Sound places have built terrible versions of roundabouts, so I'm sure those populations aren't impressed.

I did drive through one that was off an interstate exit and had heavy tractor-trailer traffic, that actually directly connected to a truck stop. To my surprise, it was glorious. It was fairly large, so the trucks had plenty of ability to go around without running over curbs, and it made all the traffic going in and out of the big truck stop / gas station pretty smooth. I was genuinely impressed. I think it was southern Indiana around the 69 project, but I can't remember.

[–] itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I live right next to an intersection that was a 4 way stop that was changed to a roundabout. I hear way more honking now than I did when it was a 4 way stop. People just don't understand yielding.

[–] redfox@infosec.pub 3 points 7 months ago

Dude that sucks, that would be so annoying.

[–] admiralteal@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago

As a reminder since everyone constantly needs to hear it: the safety and flow benefits of a roundabout do not care about whether people "know" how to yield.

Even if you do the totally wrong thing at a roundabout, it's still way better. Speeds are reduced and angles of conflict improved. It's just geometry.

Sucks that people feel a need to bonk in non life threatening situations. That's just a symptom of the immense cognitive dissonance that is driving, especially in North America. We put people on giant roads in huge, fast armored boxes then tell them they need to be polite and move slow and patiently, with constant stops and interruptions and distractions. It just fucks with human psychology. Driving is a terrible experience and the only reason most people think they like it is because we've deliberately made every alternative as bad as possible.

[–] kindenough@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago

Roundabouts are just better because of being safer, like less lethal or injuries in general for bikes and pedestrians. No waiting for a red light when there is no other traffic, fluid traffic., less pollution.

10 years ago every traffic stop got replaced for a roundabout in my town. It is so much better, quicker and safer.

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Something I've noticed but I haven't been able to find any data on is that roundabouts seem to be bad for pedestrians in a high foot traffic area.

Even if drivers know how to navigate a roundabout in America (and that's a big if), adding pedestrian crossing to the mix seems to confuse drivers even more. And for the pedestrian, the near constant flow of traffic is intimidating.

Again, in have no data here. But if I'm crossing a road on foot or with a bicycle, I'd rather have a stop light.

[–] redfox@infosec.pub 2 points 7 months ago

Interestingly, but not surprising, there's a shopping mall called Clay Terrace in Carmel that is basically walkable strip mall.

It has a lot of cross walks and two circles. I find there's people who yield readily because they know the area is intended for pedestrians, and some treat it like regular roads. They put up flashing crossing lights when people pass sensors. That helped a lot.

[–] benfulton@hoosier.social 2 points 7 months ago

@redfox Love them. Forces cars to slow down to a less than killing speed instead of a stop sign or light that can be blown through at 50 MPH. #CarsRuinEverything

[–] OceanEyes@lemmyf.uk 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

As someone who recently started commuting to and from Carmel for work every day and occasionally running to get lunch in Carmel I find them both annoying and useful. Depending on where I’m going it actually adds a bit of frustration and time getting lunch in one area I use. But a larger figure 8 one does make it much quicker and more efficient to get to the freeway. The few roundabouts we have in the area I live in mostly help with traffic but Ive lost count how many times someone has almost T-boned me or cut over lanes nearly hitting me to stay straight when the lane they were in was meant for staying around the roundabout. Also, having a roundabout right before/after a main signal intersection is the most idiotic idea. That roundabout is always congested and causes traffic to back up into other intersections.

[–] redfox@infosec.pub 2 points 7 months ago

Yeah, oddly near by lights are the enemy of circles. Circles work well IMO when the traffic spaces out. Lights just make angry mobs, then they all hit the circle at once.

Even in Carmel, someone occasionally ignores the paint on the ground, and the sign, and tries to side swipe. I am always super aware of people in intersections.

It used to take 45-55 minutes to drive through Carmel on keystone or meridian from 465 to 146. Now it takes 8 minutes!

[–] redfox@infosec.pub 1 points 7 months ago