this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024
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I want to donate to a linux phone. I believe in linux and I want a linux phone. Maybe we can use one in very few years as a normal daily driver. It's getting closer and closer every month.

I want to donate that we get there sooner. But which project? I'm following postmarket but I'm not sure if they are the most promising. What's your stance on this? To which project would you give your money to accellerate it?

Edit: I don't want to buy a phone. I want to support the phone os devs. Sorry for the bad wording.

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[–] BaumGeist@lemmy.ml 56 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

None. The sad, infuriating truth is that the makers and devs are a lot like this comments section: focusing on how good of a computer it is (or what apps it has).

You do a little digging and beneath all the hype there is a line buried in every review, so as not to raise suspicions, that says something like "now the call quality isn't perfect, but..." and what they mean is "it will sound like your friends are playing a full concert on a kazoo trying to talk to you."

Time and time again. Every linux-based, privacy-respecting, freedom-loving phone team out there seems to have conveniently neglected to make the phone good at being a phone.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 8 points 11 months ago

There's a large ecosystem in the Android space. Right now F-droid and Lineage os are making leaps and bounds.

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[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 51 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Tbh GrapheneOS.

Android is Linux.

And unlike desktop Linux it was able to spread secure and private standards

  • every app is sandboxed, not some opt-in like Flatpak
  • apps start with no permissions (or at least very little), everything is opt-in
  • it is like 99% unbreaking, immutable, it just always works while my desktop Linux broke all the time
  • there is a webview, which can be hardened. Not Electron, which is insecure and bloated
  • energy saving etc work like a charm. 1% battery loss over an entire night!
  • hardware security with trusted element is decades ahead of desktop Linux (Ubuntu is just now getting TPM encryption support)
  • it is a unified platform, with tons of apps, many of them essential (as the platform is so secure), like 2FA, Banking, public services etc. you can have a full FOSS phone though

I am sure excited for other operating systems but they are just toys. GrapheneOS does amazing work that is a 100% alternative today, for real phones with normal prices, good performance and outstanding security.

[–] FreeBooteR69@kbin.social 33 points 11 months ago (1 children)

When i think of Android i don't think of it as part of the gnu/linux ecosystem, but a heavily modified linux kernel turned against the user.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

How is it turned against the user? Androids Linux is highly restricted in that it doesnt support a lot of things, but that makes it extremely stable, while this doesnt mean that apps are also "stable" like in Debian

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[–] rah@feddit.uk 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Android is Linux.

It runs Linux but it isn't a "Linux phone" in the sense used here.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yes I know but the Term is simply incorrect. I dont have a better one though.

And even though I am excited to use some Linux Distro on a phone I own, it will be way worse in stability, security and crucial app support than Android / GrapheneOS.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 3 points 11 months ago

the Term is simply incorrect

LOL

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[–] mnglw 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

how are you only getting 1% battery drain overnight? my pixel 7 w grapheneos drains 10% overnight and battery saver makes it worse somehow

I would like to know your secrets

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[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Android is Linux.

This should be repeated in every "Linux phone" thread.

It's also possible to install a full GNU userland using Termux, and nowadays a graphical interface is even possible with Termux.

[–] Zamundaaa@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It is repeated in every single damn "Linux phone" thread, and in every single thread an answer like this is needed: No, it fucking isn't. You know exactly what everyone means, stop being a dick about it.

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[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago

On GrapheneOS right now typing this, love it! I switched over about 2 years ago to Graphene and never looked back. Rarely have any issues, solid battery life, all my apps work, life is good and private.

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 23 points 11 months ago (4 children)

AOSP. Sad but true.

When first pinephone came out I really believed it's heading somewhere. It thought that it will be kind of like raspberry Pi (fun, cheap platform to play with) and that we'll quickly see copycats and it will slowly grow the way Linux on desktop did. AFAIK nothing like this happened. You still can't get a phone with decent Linux support which for me shows that we're stuck with android. I think most people that would help Linux phone happen are simply satisfied with LineageOS so there's no incentive to put as much effort into it as it requires.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 16 points 11 months ago

AOSP is dying as Google is killing off all the apps in favor of proprietary Google ones.

Lineage os is slowly becoming its own thing as they are maintaining basically all of the system apps at this point.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 10 points 11 months ago (6 children)

An Android phone isn't what's referred to when people say "Linux phone". What they're referring to is a phone running GNU/Linux, typically running one of the GNU/Linux phone shells/desktop environments.

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I know and what I'm saying is that all those project are moving very slowly while projects like GraphneOS/LineageOS already offer open, privacy oriented phones with good hardware and lot's of apps. This is simply where more effort is going, where we're seeing more progress and our best chance at getting "Linux phones".

[–] rah@feddit.uk 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I know

Apparently not.

projects like GraphneOS/LineageOS ... our best chance at getting "Linux phones".

To repeat myself: an Android phone (for example, running GrapheneOS or LineageOS) isn't a "Linux phone".

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[–] smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

The benefits are there, some of ideas out of my head:

Better networking for administrator, access to /etc/hosts file, not being tied to a single VPN slot.

Using old mobile phone as a simple server, having access to firewall tools and normal remote control.

Installing simplier graphical interface for eldery people.

Lifetime updates for many system components that are not device specific.

Simple backups and cloning with standard tools like rsync or borgbackup instead of Google Drive. Also backing up whole system.

Everyone can add a feature, you can make a difference, no need to mess with Google's Android developing pipeline.

Making native apps for mobile and desktop at the same time, no need for bloated web-like abstraction layers.

Apps made in Python, C, Rust... No need to fit into Android SDK. And no forcing Android SDK and Android Studio!

Customizations of the interface look via CSS files (Phosh have it to some sort).

Someone give more ideas?

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[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

That's just capitulation.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

[–] jabjoe@feddit.uk 22 points 11 months ago (4 children)

The main problem is political not technical. The market had been allowed to become a duopoly and too many critical things now need an app on an Android or Apple phone. The worse I know is banks needing an app for authentication for their online banking. No separate security device anymore, those are ewaste apparently.

Public EV chargers where you can only control them from an app.

Riding book at theme parks. The cases are growing. Even the app is just wrapper of hidden web page!

Frankly I think regulation is required to get competition in the market. Not the only tech one either. Why is it so hard for law makers to see monopoly in tech?

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[–] EmilyIsTrans@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

When I was looking a couple years ago Ubuntu Touch was by far the most developed and stable. Primarily because Canonical poured millions of dollars into its development before giving it up and dropping it, but the community has gone a long way to make it what it is today.

Probably not a popular choice on this community though.

[–] sab@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

It's a friendly community, and Lomiri is a great DE that people have also gotten up and running on [other distros].

For the time being it runs better on Android devices than on "pure" linux phones such as the PinePhone, but I have great experiences with it. If you don't depend on other IM services than Signal you could probably use it as a daily driver on several phones already.

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[–] ipsirc@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 months ago
[–] Guenther_Amanita@feddit.de 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

I think either PostmarketOS or Mobian would be the best existing candidates right now.
Hardware wise, the Fairphone 4 is probably the best option, especially compared to something like a Pinephone.

I tried Phosh (Gnome mobile shell) on an exhibition a while ago and honestly loved it.

However, I'm absolutely not confident in those tbh, in terms of reliability. The whole thing is highly experimental right now, and I wouldn't trust them as a daily driver.


Phosh is also available for Fedora, especially Silverblue (available as ARM iso), since you are, with me together, probably one of the most prominent Fedora Atomic fanboy :D

I see big potential in a uBlue-phone spin maybe. I tried making one myself, but I absolutely don't have a clue what I'm doing and don't want any responsibility for such a project.
Do you know if or how we could organise such a project?

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[–] rah@feddit.uk 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

To which project would you give your money to accellerate it?

I would reign in your hopes of accelerating a project using money, unless you have enough money to pay someone's salary for a significant period of time.

That said, I'd suggest postmarketOS or Mobian might be the most worthy of donations.

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What kind of a response is that? "just give up", "your contribution is worth nothing", "your money is useless", "anyway if you want to do something worth nothing, do it there".

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

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[–] gayhitler420@lemm.ee 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Don’t do this.

Android is already Linux on a phone and it’s bad.

Donate to normal Linux on computers. There is an ever expanding mess of packages that need to be updated, fixed, hosted, maintained, streamlined, back ported and generally massaged into functionality with whatever goofy distro you pick.

Donate to Linux on computers instead.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 14 points 11 months ago (16 children)

For the vast majority of people these days, a phone/tablet is their computer, and a laptop/desktop cannot fulfill the same use cases. So if someone makes the very reasonable request for a phone recommendation, telling them to just use a laptop/desktop doesn't make any sense. It would be like someone asking for a recommendation for a moped, and responding "don't bother, just get a Ford F150".

[–] gayhitler420@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, it’s not like that at all.

The op didn’t ask for a phone recommendation and I didn’t recommend instead that they use a laptop or desktop.

The op said they want to donate to a Linux phone because one day they believe they’ll be able to use a Linux phone. They want to pick the right one to give money to so it’ll have the best effect towards that end.

I said they shouldn’t do that because they can already use a Linux phone and there are tons of other Linux based projects where the money will go much farther.

We ought to be looking at this from a completely different perspective though: op is trying to maximize the value their donation has, and that’s a bummer. They should just donate to the one they like and not worry about effectiveness.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Apologies if I misunderstood your meaning when you said "android is already Linux on a phone and it's bad". If android is sufficient for your mobile Linux needs, that's fine, I use it too. But it doesn't fit the bill for everyone, and that's the point of OP wanting to support an actual FOSS mobile effort. The alternatives you list don't get them closer to what they're looking for.

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[–] pH3ra@lemmy.ml 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The problem with mobile phones is that they have big differences between each others in terms of hardware, so it's really hard to come up with a "unified solution", thus making development really slow.
Right now, the two distributions which came further in development are PostmarketOS and UbuntuTouch, but they are still far from being a reliable daily driver.

If the reason you'd like to chip in is not just Linux per se, but FOSS in general, there are plenty of fully free and open source Android roms that are a great deal in terms of usability, privacy and support, notably LineageOS, GrapheneOS, /e/OS and the one I chose for myself which is CalyxOS

Edit: when I talk about a phone being a "reliable daily driver", in my mind I think "a phone you can conduct a business with", so call and chat with clients, take pictures, exchange e-mails, have a working GPS and Bluetooth. And all of these features must be flawless and always available and sadly Linux phones aren't there yet.

[–] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I found Ubuntu Touch/Droidian the most promising when I last tried to get a good Linux mobile setup. Everything was working and i could run any linux app i wanted. The only problem was mobile data configuration with ISP here in the UK. I would donate to whoever is making the best progress and having the most impact. There is so much variety of hardware with phones that a single (or very small number) of compatibility layers needs to emerge.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 11 points 11 months ago

I would donate to whoever is making the best progress and having the most impact.

OP is asking who that is.

[–] wargreymon2023@sopuli.xyz 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 5 points 11 months ago

Lol, well *I* thought it was funny:-P. You might get fewer fake internet point reductions if you threw in a /s.

[–] andho@akkoma.andho.xyz 4 points 11 months ago

@GravitySpoiled
I'll trying to buy a pine phone as my first Linux phone as it's cheap. Not great but would be okay for tinkering.
@linux

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Lineage os seems to be the most promising. We already have F-droid so the apps are there and the good news is that for every component that Google makes proprietary Lineage os is creating and maintaining a free software version.

[–] sebsch@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

I would not call Android a Linux. It may have the kernel but it isn't much GNU in it

[–] survivalmachine 2 points 11 months ago

It may have the kernel but it isn't much GNU in it

Wait, does this mean Alpine Linux is not Linux?

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[–] eugenia@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

For me, the best is e/OS, which is based off of LineageOS, but with extra privacy features to de-google. Just get a compatible phone, and run that.

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