r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?
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Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 11-28 | LD 5x07 | "Fully Dilated" |
| 12-05 | LD 5x08 | "Upper Decks" |
| 12-12 | LD 5x09 | "Fissure Quest" |
| 12-19 | LD 5x10 | "The New Next Generation" |
| 01-24 | Film | "Section 31" |
In Production
Strange New Worlds (TBA)
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This is not to say that the ’90s shows never delved into the complexity and nuance of this ethos—indeed, playing at the edges of their internal morality was how they derived much of their interest...Things are different in modern Trek.
If you have to include a variation of "sure, it was always like this, but it's different now," it's time to go back to the drawing board with your thinkpiece.
I've admittedly still only watched up through the 90s, but I'd definitely say that DS9 depicted a significantly more "morally gray" version of Starfleet than TOS or TNG.
I think the point the author is making is that the extent to which this idea gets explored is reflective of our society's growing mistrust of institutions IRL, rather than suggesting the theme has never been explored.
Yeah, and I don't buy it.
Can anyone make a serious claim that "as a rule, Starfleet is good, and the best way to be a good servant of the true and just in the world of Star Trek is by being a good Starfleet officer" is not the message of literally every current series? Even "Picard," which had arguably the most cynical take on Starfleet by virtue of featuring a number of characters who had left the organization, ended by sticking everybody back into a uniform, ready to take on the galaxy. "Starfleet is good" is the central thesis of "Prodigy," as well as "Discovery," particularly during the two most recent series.
The piece treats the crew stealing the Enterprise in SNW as something particularly meaningful, despite the fact that this sort of thing has been done repeatedly since...checks notes 1984.
It's just another tired bit about how following orders and perfect institutions are what Star Trek is really about, to hell with any evidence to the contrary.
It’s just another tired bit about how following orders and perfect institutions are what Star Trek is really about, to hell with any evidence to the contrary.
I'd argue that the theme is less about following orders and more We are all individually flawed and are at our best when we follow our shared values - which is represented by both Starfleet and the utopian setting as a whole.
I can see the argument (for fiction and real life), that as we trust institutions less, our focus becomes more on individual judgement rather than collectivist ideas. It also tracks for me that as this occurs in real life, our media would reflect individualism more and more.
Sure, and if the core of the article is "today's values are somewhat different than those of the 90s"...yes, they are, just as the values of the 90s were different from those of the 60s. I think there's an interesting academic discussion to be had in there, but I don't think this article is it.
Were the earlier series not focused on shared values to more or less a similar extent too?
Kirk has usually been given the reputation of being a rule-breaker, often ignoring Starfleet rules when they are in conflict with his values. Even off-camera (in DS9 I think) they attribute him 17 temporal violations, and I think he has been accused of violating the prime directive multiple times.
That's a good point. I think this contrast between individual (often flawed) human judgment vs collectivist ideals has always been a theme. In TOS, you see Kirk calming McCoy's knee-jerk reactions almost every episode. In TNG, it was Yar or Worf. In DS9, probably Kira.
Even then, I would say the collectivist ideals (i.e. Starfleet regulations) were more often portrayed as overly-cumbersome in implementation, which leads to someone like Kirk violating the rules in place of the ideals that they stand for. For example, how many naïve (but well-meaning) diplomats do we see in TOS or TNG? However, rules being restrictive or imperfect in an effort to support larger agreed-upon morals can still be trusted, compared to corrupt power structures, which cannot.
Kirk doesn't really violate them, also you can tell that the writers don't really have the rules of star fleet worked out in season 1 or even 2.
I loved the nearly boundless optimism of TNG. It inspired me to believe in a better future. Watching Picard was depressing because they decided Starfleet was an org where a little corruption at the top could take the whole thing down. The Starfleet that inspired me didn't tolerate corruption at any level. Truth from an ensign was honored above a lie from an admiral and I liked it that way.
This is why I love TNG so much. Even though TOS is the original that laid the groundwork for everything, TNG took that "boundless optimism" and ran with it. Watching TNG inspires me to continue to self-improve and encourage it in others.
Strange New Worlds definitely still has the "optimistic" viewpoint of old trek. I think that's why it has been doing so well. I think the problem in other modern Trek shows like the first 2 seasons of Picard or all of Discovery was that there wasn't enough of the hopeful optimism that made Trekkies fall in love with the franchise. There doesn't need to be a universe ending plot calamity, exploration and interesting sci-fi plots that actually drive character development are enough.
Even "grittier" old trek like DS9 (my favourite trek show) had optimistic undertones of recognizing similarities between cultures, forging alliances, trying to be ethical in the face of war, and addressing social issues.
Even the underlying theme of Voyager was to maintain the ideals of the federation against all odds in the face if hopelessness.
I just hope studios see the success of Strange New Worlds and make more trek like it.
Fascinating
Considering the article is on Substack, a proud Nazi-supporting site, I would imagine it's readers don't appreciate Star Trek much at all.
A good article that I unfortunately can’t read much of due to a pay wall.
I think my main question would be: so I wasn’t around in the 1960s… but I can’t imagine the average Star Trek viewer was sitting around thinking “yep, that’s what real life is going to be like” in the future, even with a somewhat more optimistic culture.
I think Star Trek is more aspirational. It aspires to have this society where most everyone is very professional, very intelligent, very emotionally controlled and empathetic, etc. The newer seasons seem to miss some of this especially on that professionalism front. The kind of “British stiff upper lip” stereotype. It’s harder to imagine this utopia future without a significant change in how everyone acts and talks in their day to day lives, and modern Star Trek doesn’t really capture that latter part (imo). It makes it feel like society just kind of “stumbled into” a utopian society
Modern Trek has no actual vision; it has nostalgia. Which is a terrible substitute it frankly is the opposite in many ways.
Modern Trek (by which I mean SNW) is very very close to being good to me. Something about the dialogue just throws me off though, along with the hour long episodes not really suiting the subgenre imo.
I think people are genuinely trying to make SNW good, just kind of a lightning in a bottle scenario
Yes, I wholly agree. I still think that the show is still firmly rooted in nostalgia not in making a new attempt to outline a future.
Ah damn, sorry about the paywall. It let me hit "continue reading" on mobile, but I know sometimes these types of sites can be inconsistent.
It's all good! I appreciate you posting, and I understand that websites like that need to get money from somewhere.
The newer seasons seem to miss some of this especially on that professionalism front. The kind of “British stiff upper lip” stereotype.
This presumes that that sort of stoicism is particularly aspirational or healthy, and I don't think there's anything close to universal consensus on that one.
I think something that gets missed in discussions of "utopia" is that it's not real. Utopia is not attainable, because there is no universal definition of what that would look like. It exists as a dream of the future, but that's all.
At least to me, I find it pretty aspirational. But I can see how others would differ on that regard.
Regardless, I appreciate that this is still seen through a few different lenses. The Klingon for example are like... notably emotional. A Klingon being quick to anger is one of their defining traits. Yet they're still very "respectful" in their own way, with that code of honor being very key to their society.
The biggest change in America between TOS and TNG was Watergate. Even if people thought that Johnson was wrong to go into Vietnam, they mostly believed that the government was trying to do the right thing.