340
Lemmy.world down, probably following the upgrade. A reminder to move to smaller instances for a better experience
(files.catbox.moe)
this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
340 points (100.0% liked)
Fediverse
757 readers
9 users here now
A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.
Fediverse is a portmanteau of "federation" and "universe".
Getting started on Fediverse;
- What is the fediverse?
- Fediverse Platforms
- How to run your own community
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.
Github Issue 2910 is the kind of PostgreSQL problems that the developers ignored for months and people still defend the developer choices to have the code doing real-time counting of every single comment and post for numbers nobody needs to needs done in real-time.
PostgreSQL is voodoo to this project, they do everything they can to avoid going to !postgresql@lemmy.ml community and asking for help, learning 101 about how to fix their SQL TRIGGER logic like Github Issue 2910 spelled out June 4.
I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub, but you should look at it objectively, Blaze is clearly advocating that people join top instances that's not lemmy.world or lemmy.ml, not nobody instances that only have 1-2 users. They certainly aren't going offline as quickly as they come online.
No, it isn't about my personal treatment. It's about the cultist attitude you have towards Lemmy and the leaders without any ability to see what they are doing behind the scenes with the code. I know cults and religious faith is how many people enjoy the world.
A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix. It was crashing the entire site constantly. They sat by and asked for donations of money.
No, it's everything to do about your personal treatment, stop deceiving yourself. Just because you claim you have autism doesn't immediately grant you the right to be entitled. You don't get your way so you spam create multiple issues to call out the developers, and you expect people to believe it isn't personal for you?
If you aren't happy with the Lemmy developers, fork the project, run your own fork, convince others to use your fork. It's a FOSS world, no one has to do what you say, even if you claim to be autistic.
Telling someone "you claim you have autism" is extremely ableist to all disabled people.
Entitled to what? free money? discount at the car wash? I see you like claiming things that I never said, who talked about deserving things or being entitled?
perhaps you do not grasp that autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.
Maybe you lack compassion for my suffering and you are a bully.
No, I never claimed that you said you were entitled. I claimed that you like using your autism as an excuse.
See? Why make yourself suffer?
Why do you deserve my compassion? You are literally hurting yourself by participating in discussions even when you claim, in your own words, "autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.". If it hurts so much, get offline.
that is all you car about, not having to encounter words you disagree with, to drive off human person you don't like. It's sad to see the popularity of people like you, Donald Trump likes to harm others and gets big crowds too.
If you willingly hurt yourself, or your brain, conversing online, then you shouldn't be using it as an excuse to get your point across. The advice was given, if it hurts, stop doing it, is that really that hard to explain?
to you, yes. As I don't think in flippant attempts to trivialize human beings and reduce things to simpleton answers for something they have struggled with each and every day of their life. It sure is easier to dehumanize me as you keep doing.
writing online is about the only thing in my life that I can do, despite the constant pain, and I'm near death. Once the writing goes, there is zero left, I'm not even really surviving.
Simon Baron-Cohen; July 1, 2003; "The Essential Difference: Male And Female Brains And The Truth About Autism", page 146 quote: "Another man with AS described his life in a very graphic way: 'Every day is like climbing Mount Everest in lead boots, covered in molasses. Every step in every part of my life is a struggle.'"
If it helps clarify things for you, the person you are arguing with doesn't understand what you are trying to say with regards to how autism informs your interactions with others online and is arguing against a point you aren't trying to make. They are however entirely too dug into arguing against that point to easily and effectively get them to understand what you are actually saying and respond to that without the baggage of already deciding that they entirely disagree with you to the point they think they are entitled to be rude to you because you don't agree with them.
The conversation you are in in this thread is more difficult than it ought to be and while some element of that may be due to your autism, there's also a lot of failures from the other side of it making the conversation harder than it should be. At this point you are not being treated kindly and respectfully by the other person (because they are frustrated and handling it poorly.) Better to just disengage with them and shrug it off as a misunderstanding and bad behaviour not of your making as best as you are able to do so.
you used the word entitled, or are you confused? Now you are saying it is an excuse?
It's a fact, it impacts my every word I'm typing on this keyboard, every single English word I speak, read, write, type, hear. It causes bullies and hate-filled people who hate human beings to flock to you to try to "correct" everything about your existence and behavior. Like you are doing.
Do you know the history of Autism in Nazi Europe where it started to get documented? Do you know how humans treat those with mental differences? Is it all your game to imply that love and kindness is shown towards those who speak and behave oddly?
Then go fix it and open a PR
Do you think I am the one who created the mistake or something? That I have access to the servers to install it?
It's so odd to me that you respond this way, as if it was my coding mistake. It isn't even me who opened issue, that is GitHub "makotech222" - is that your answer to them?
I don’t believe they’re insinuating that you were the one that created the mistake. Rather, that you seem to be knowledgeable of the specific problem and may be the one most capable of fixing it. The two line fix may be obvious to you, but may not to the main Lemmy devs. Until phriskey got involved, a lot of db tuning was being avoided (they’re responsible for most of the big db improvements this version).
and I did not understand or properly relate to that project culture. It had been that way for years and I should have "read the room" "go with the flow".
What is a SQL trigger and why is it taking down servers? Do you know how to fix it?
I think 0.18.3 fixed some of it, but there are likely some more performance issues related to PostgreSQL lurking in Lemmy.
A TRIGGER in SQL is a logic that executes based on other activity.
Lemmy uses them so that when you create a new comment or post, it executes code to insert tracking record for votes and comments on a post. One of the things Lemmy does is called site_aggregates, and there was a bug where it was updating the counts for 1500 servers instead of just the one server. That got fixed in 0.18.3
Deleting accounts in lemmy was causes crashes. I'm not sure if that has been entirely resolved. These things are all kind of hidden in the background of the code, so a lot of developers overlooked that there were problems in them.
Isn’t there a logstream they could tap into to have a separate async tally going on instead of doing it synchronously? Probably a lot of things could be delegated to an async job performed when server load allows?
I've had to really adjust my thinking with this project. They want to do things a very particular way and it goes back 4 years, and a lot of the mistakes are just now getting noticed/attention. For example, comments were not deleting on all the servers, I was testing that after comparing server copies of the same communities and found they were not the same. It just didn't seem to have a lot of people spot-checking it for mistakes. I am learn to just "go with the flow" and face that it's more like how musicians would approach design and running a project. Media-focused systems can be that way.
Going with the flow is both ways. It’s a community project so everyone’s opinion matters, especially those who contribute PRs.
I am always advocating for any of the top 25 instances that are not Lemmy.world or Lemmy.ml
For the rest of your post, I don't know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.
aggregation refers to the lemmy database tables, site_ aggregates, community, person. The SQL TRIGGER logic lemmy_server uses that has been the source of so many crashes the past 60+ days.
Shit dude, you still going on about the GitHub issues?
Is it your cult loyalty to the pro-China project leaders speaking? The authoritarianism that you honor? Do you have blind faith in machine code and are unable to see the level of effort they make to avoid the performance critical code in the application?
Did their words "high performance" on GitHub mesmerise you into believing it without actually installing the Rust code and looking at their performance your own self?
Sorry to tell you this, but you need to stop being overly obsessed over the Lemmy project. It is not healthy for you. Go do something better with your life. With the amount of enthusiasm you are showing, I bet you can find the cure for cancer.
If the cure to cancer were found, like a virus to prevent deaths from COVID-19, sites like Twitter and Lemmy would spread lies and disinformation and tell people to avoid authentic facts and science.
Is it the pro-China stance of the developers that gives you blind faith in how their SQL TRIGGER code works or Rust logic?
I doubt your sincerity and think this is a social tactic you use, lies. Insincerity.
The lies coming out of Elon Musk's Twitter and the lies from Cambridge Analtica on Facebook make me ill. The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick. I didn't stubble into Lemmy because I was healthy with crowds of people who flock to anything in "meme format" and praise authoritarian politicians and businessmen.
Based on how humanity behaved during the pandemic, with all the denial of a virus that a microscope can deonstate as fact, I don't think it is possible to be healthy unless you choose to self-deceive and believe the memes and advertisements.
Maybe, maybe not. It's up to the reader to differentiate between facts and tales. I don't see how that is relevant.
No, I believe the project is in need of a lot of polish. However, the way you act, makes me hope the polish does not come from you.
Okay.
Have you considered turning off your computer, and looking out the window? Looks like the problems you are facing can be solved rather easily. There is neither Twitter nor Facebook out the window.
Perhaps you do not see it is relevant, or that you are being insincere on the topic
Humanity track record is to avoid truth and favor mythology. I can suggest Carl Sagan's 1995 book on the subject.
Yha, all the people around me are staring into their Smartphones and attacking humanism on social media like you are.
You apparently can not see them with their Smartphone while driving and doing practically anything.
You quoted it in your reply, but you obviously ignored this: "The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick."
Meet, in person, IRL, "outside the window" as you call it. You clearly do not care for reality of humanity and what is actually happening because of media like Twitter, Reddit, Lemmy.
I was just reading through y'all's conversation and this piece stuck out to me. I read a lot of loneliness, hurt, and isolation in your comments, yo, and then I read this piece. Man, do I get that. That reminded me of me throughout high school and college; I didn't feel like anyone saw what I saw. Which was pain. And if I'm being honest, I was seeing others' pain, but I was mostly seeing my pain. I met my best friend late in college, and she was a god-send because she got me. She saw their pain too. And more importantly, she saw my pain and honored it, and that was such a relief.
When I feel alone and isolated, I usually feel like withdrawing more. Since her, I've found that that's usually a sign that I actually need to connect. I need to find others that get me. Not as another avenue to vent my frustrations and anger and pain, but as an avenue for joy, as an avenue for remembering that I am more than just my pain.
That's a lot of shit off the top of my head, and I dunno if you'll resonate with any of it because I only know you as far as a few comments online. But wanted to write it in case it would resonate with you or anyone else.
Take care of yourselves, y'all.
I find everyone is in pain, and often covering it up. I gave up covering my pain in 2009 and haven't turned back. But a lot of people want to deny the suffering in the world and do not want to see authentic pain. They want memes, superhero comics etc.
It is sad to me that humanity can not organize a mass funeral for those who died in the pandemic. There is so much hate and pain between people, online and offline. People seem to show trauma towards even basic medical science facts in 2023.
Thank you and love to all, have a good weekend
They would try, but they would fail. COVID-19 is history now, because of vaccination, despite the best efforts of anti-vax death cultists to stop it.
I find anti-science is going as Carl Sagan predicted it could in his 1995 book.
I do not meet people who would consider a microscope a useful tool to look at the virus. Their faith is in information on TV or websites, not even considering that the virus can be directly observed. I saw almost nobody asking for a TV show to show microscope footage and taking a test from a person and demonstrating it can be seen. Virus has been on Earth for millions of year, the microscope is the new thing they aren't facing.
There is a popularity aspect of misinformation. Sagan teaches about that too.
There were pictures and diagrams of the virus. There was even art made in the virus' likeness.
I've never seen a claim that COVID-19 was caused by anything other than an observable physical object. There have been many claims that it's a manmade bioweapon and that vaccines are ineffective and harmful, but I've never heard of someone claiming it's an intangible curse from God or something.
This is the appropriate time and place to discuss the codebase and project management approach of the Lemmy FOSS project. If you don't like hearing people you disagree with talk about those things, you should be going to do something else rather than rudely trying to make them shut up. Even from the perspective that you just want to challenge this user about the appropriateness of how they are expressing their opinions and frustrations, you are going too far and behaving inappropriately yourself with all the personal attacks. Just leave it alone and if they are saying things that you feel need to be addressed just report and move on.
I have nothing against anyone who wants to bring up issues, but the way one brings up the issues should be taken into account. Anyone who tries to get their point across by spamming GitHub issues automatically loses points in my book.
Is this acceptable in your book? Are you defending this action? It certainly is not acceptable in mine, and the reason why I called the user out on it.
I understand if you take offense at the way I came across the user in question, but when they repeatedly bring up their pain as a response, it is only logical that I ask them to refrain from actions that cause them pain. It's one thing to have to go through pain for basic life-sustaining tasks, like eating, drinking, or even physiotherapy, but if your brain hurts typing on a social media forum, which you repeatedly refuse to cease, then you have no sympathy from me. Lemmy, or even Reddit for that matter is not a basic living requirement.
What personal attacks?
Likewise, if you have an issue with what I said, go ahead, report and move on. If I broke any instance rules, I'm sure the responsible admins will be swift in delivering the appropriate response.
Even if the SQL was top notch, it would not be a good thing for 50% of the active users to be on a simple instance. Just makes it easier to take down by any potential attacker.
And this will always.. always be the biggest problem in the FOSS community.
"I dont like X, so I'm going to leave and make my own version of X"
So userbases get spread thin, manpower gets spread thin, developers get spread thin, and the user experiences degrades for everyone until it pushes them back to the bullshit websites and products.
This is exactly what federation is meant to solve: power in numbers without the centralization. Is that so hard to understand?
Sometimes I question why people not in favor of the decentralization are commenting on a Fediverse platform. Why not go to Tildes, Squabbles or another centralized alternative? There is plenty of fish in the sea.
This is another big problem in the FOSS
"If you dare offer valid criticism, then why are you even here? get out and go somewhere else!"
Your criticism is nonsensical. It's literally criticizing the purpose of the project.
Your answer didn't justify lemmy.world being treated the same as Lemmy as a whole. It's just a bunch of people who don't understand federation.
And, factually, the project leaders telling everyone to create 1000 new instances and shutting down sign-up on Lemmy.ml caused more performance problems.
They had a bug in their PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic where 1500 instances were updating + 1 comment and +1 post counting instead of WHERE site_id = 1, a single database row. So each new Lemmy server that went online made the table larger and crashes more frequent on lemmy.ml
The amount of disk writing by lemmy was ignored
They've neither told people to create 1000 new instances, nor have they closed signups on lemmy.ml.
Again, you should really stop revolving your entire life over one GitHub issue, and go touch grass.
The developers of Lemmy seem to make every effort they can to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss their !postgresql@lemmy.ml learning 101. They have made massive mistakes in SQL TRIGGER logic that they avoided to such a degree that their social motives are in question now. Github Issue 2910 was opened June 4, almost a month before the Reddit API deadline, and they ignored it. Just like they hang out on Matrix Chat and don't use Lemmy their own self to discuss code.
They have cultivated a kind of voodoo attitude towards PostgreSQL where people using Lemmy won't actually scrutinize the Rust code or PostgreSQL tuning parameters.