this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
393 points (100.0% liked)
Asklemmy
1454 readers
73 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
People have tried alternate systems, some have even gone extremely well until they are destroyed by capitalists
The fact of the matter is, the only reason there isn't another system is because capitalists have gone out of their way to destroy every other system that has been tried.
You can't make a fair comparison when you factor in that capitalists already control the world.
Even democratically elected communists were destroyed by the US government.
Alternative systems such as...? I can think of several, but none I'd describe as 'successful'.
It's kind of a red flag (no pun intended) when your preferred system can be destabilized with some money stuffed in the right pockets, isn't it? Most failed systems that were 'undermined by capitalists' mostly involved funding and support, not invasion or anything. Meanwhile, democracy and capitalism emerged in the midst of hostile aristocracy and royalty, and survived decades of attempts by the USSR (and now Russia) to undermine it.
My personal opinion is that those systems were doomed from conception, though I don't deny that the US certainly engaged in speeding their demise.
Anyway, that's all beside the point. Both populations and consumption increased under the Soviets, and any other system you care to name, proportionate to their effectiveness at keeping people fed and healthy.
This you? Or are you just that ignorant? US history class must have been a joke for you.
Undermined by stuffed pockets?
None of the systems I advocated were undermined by stuffed pockets, they were undermined by a capitalist country militaristically destroying a new nation, a capitalist country that has 50 percent of the ENTIRE WORLDS military spending.
That's an important detail not to gloss over.
Revolutionary Catalonia had a wonderful system, the zapatistas have a wonderful system, neither were undermined by what you claim. I'm anti-red fascism, the Soviet union was evil. You just boldly assumed anarchists don't exist, I agree that they were fundamentally doomed, but anarchists have no such fuckups.
Furthermore do you honestly believe capitalism is not susceptible to stuffed pockets??