Asklemmy

Well I mean it’s unclear to me that we’re much worse than previous points in history.

That's interesting, because to me it's very clear. After all, small isolated pockets of people ruining their economy and the environment they depend on is quite a bit different from all of humanity everywhere doing this.

Well I mean it's unclear to me that we're much worse than previous points in history. I'd rather have the climate crisis over the nuclear one, or either of the world wars, or live under a feudal system where I'm owned by the local lord in his castle.

You'd rather have the climate crisis as it currently stands. I think you'll change your tune on that in coming decades but by then it'll be far too late to actually do anything about it. You're also more insulated to it's effects than many millions of people around the world who are already losing their lives, homes, livelihoods, etc and this is only a sniff of what's to come. Also, peasants in feudal times on average had more time off, made more money comparatively, and were able to travel more (yes, even serfs) than your average American currently. The chains just look a little different, they aren't gone.

I sympathize (and agree) with the belief that the current system isn't serving everyone, much less serving everyone equally. But the world is a complicated thing and we've got >7 billion people to feed! I think we should be very careful before deciding "yeah it's time to tear down the existing systems and hope that there are better systems out there". It's easier to make things worse than to make things better.

We've got 8 billion people to feed and are doing a terrible job of it. Take under half of Elon's wealth alone and you could feed the entire world, yet instead we laud these modern day dragons for their "success," instead of slaying them for the good of the people. It's easier to make things worse for you, than better for you. Billions of people currently suffering terribly for the profit of others would vehemently disagree. Also, just because the unknown is uncertain doesn't mean it should be feared. We know capitalism isn't working for the planet itself, yet people would rather stick to it because it's enriched a small fragment of humanity. You happen to be in the side of the boat that isn't currently underwater, but make no mistake that the water is pouring in.

I guess? I've wanted to start my own business a couple of times. I'm a programmer, so I've toyed with the idea and done some research into creating a few apps which I believe people would find useful, and might pay my bills. I don't own a house or a car-- I live in an apartment in a mid-size US city.

You are not a capitalist.

I'm guessing you'd consider me a pawn, but I don't. I fit your description of owning a bit of personal property, and being a worker.

You are a worker, so why look out for the interests of an entirely different class that doesn't do the same for you?

I've worked for some large companies in the past which are supposedly the "actual capitalists". But I promise they don't give two shits about social good (or social bad). They are just desperately trying to make products that people want to buy.

Therein lies the exact problem: profit is the only motive. And to get profit, capitalists have shown they are willing to do everything, damn the consequences to others, to society, to the planet. Climate change isn't a whoopsie, starving, desperate people aren't a whoopsie, train derailments aren't a whoopsie, even most wars (every American involved war since WW2) are not a whoopsie. They are all the predictable results of capitalists choosing to rake in more profits at the expense of you and I.

In my view, it's a pretty good system which constrains huge organizations like Apple to making devices, when the alternative is that they could be setting up their own governments.

Why would they need to set up their own governments when they control ours? How exactly are they constrained? Google is arguably more powerful than most nations' governments. Sure, most of that is soft power, but if trends continue it won't stay soft for much longer.

If you have to work in order to pay your bills you are not a successful capitalist. And it doesn’t matter whether you freelance or not.

I’d rather have the climate crisis over the nuclear one

Why? Either way, everybody dies.

or either of the world wars

Instead of dying from mustard gas, we're all going to die from heat and starvation. Yay.

or live under a feudal system where I’m owned by the local lord in his castle.

Today, you get to choose which lord owns you, and change lords on occasion, but other than that it's pretty much the same thing.

I’d rather have the climate crisis over the nuclear one, or either of the world wars, or live under a feudal system where I’m owned by the local lord in his castle.

Give it a couple of years, because the world is going to get a lot, lot worse than it currently is (which is already pretty bad, for folks around the world). The World Wars will be nothing in comparison, and at least a nuclear war would be a relatively fast end.