this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023
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Antiwork/Work Reform
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
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Date Created: June 15, 2023
Date Updated: July 17, 2023
Library copied from reddit:
The Anti-Work Library 📚
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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have you been poor? I have.
sadly a lot of poor people are stupid and make shitty choices. most of my friends form high school went to shitty schools and dropped out and did nothing with their lives and ended up married with kids very young. they partied and didn't study. they took out loans they could not afford. they had no discipline or drive. they now are in dead end low paying jobs and struggling and miserable.
as someone who 'made it out' I was only able to do so because i was able to make sacrifices to do so. i didn't party. i worked. i spend all of my 20s working my ass off to improve my situation. because i knew the consequences for me if I ever slacked off would ruin my life. fortunately i was also able to realize that my parents were complete idiots and not to follow any advice they ever gave me about money or life. but that all came at a huge emotional cost.
like... why should I or anyone feel bad for people facing the consequences of their actions?
but on the flip side, the wealthy can fuck around and never find out because they will be bailed out of all their poor choices by their parents wealth. if we create a society where everyone is bailed out of their own poor choices by never having to pay negative consequences for what they choose, what kind of society will that create?
you could say the same thing about people who purposely destroy their health by eating poorly, smoking etc. which is sadly the majority of our health crisis in America... it's self-inflicted. and again my motivate to be healthy is because i know i can't afford to be sick, it would bankrupt me.
truth is a lot of people are shitty people, why should they be given equal footing for those of us who chose to do the right things?
several people i know who were banking on the loan forgiveness... could pay back their loans. they just refused to because they wanted to travel and party. nor should they have taking out a six figure loan to become a social worker.
That's great but the VAST MAJORITY of poor people are only poor because they were born poor, and never had a chance to grow past it. Not because of personal choices.
And the VAST MAJORITY of rich people are only rich because they were born to rich parents, not because of personal choices.
So all that stuff you're talking about? Even if it's true, which I doubt, it's just edge cases. Not worth discussing.
One thing that gets me with this is an idea that everyone should be as competent as I. I know a lot of folks that are doing the best they can but not only did I sacrifice in various ways but I have a bookish nature and an inquisitive mind. This is the main reason I was in the advanced group in high school. But you know I was at the bottom or close to of that group. Was it because I was lazy. Maybe but I certainly felt like I had to work at it a lot. My experience with that and college has made me realize I just can't memorize as quickly or as perfectly as my peers. This put me in a poor position in some ways but it gave me a leg up in understanding as this is how I competed. Anyway everyone cannot be top of the class or good at a whole bunch of things (I feel america expects everyone to be a doctor and a lawyer and an accountant and a mechanic along with every other type of tradesman). People at the bottom should have a decent enough life and people at the top should not have wealth representing 10 or 100 or 1000 people because as good as they are they are not that good. In many cases they are not even good but inherited or lucked into it or bastarded their way through.
people at the bottom should have more resources, but we can't force them to make good choices with those resources.
that's the issue you fail to see. that many people choose to live shitty lives despite whatever they are given. that is the ugly truth.
you can't force people to live positive lives. you can't force them to get help. you can't force them to utilize teh resources available to them.
why is it that poor immigrant kids do so much better than poor domestic kids even though they have far less resources? because they have drive to succeed and make a better life for themselves.
some people are just lazy. it's not a matter of competence, it's a matter of them not giving a fuck about anything outside of gratifying their immediate wants.
like the people who take out huge loans, get good jobs, and then don't pay the loans back so they can party and travel.
I think that you are missing how people have a variety of capabilities and intelligence. I would pose you this theoretical to ponder. You have a maze, and six rats. Of the six, one finds the exit with ease, while the other five struggle and don't find the exit. Yay for the smart, efficient rat!
What are you going to do with the other five? Maybe some of them can learn the maze, but is there any utility in this now? Will you, knowing their deficiencies, throw them back into the maze over and over until they learn it? Some of them never will. Is this not a cruelty to them? What benefit do you derive from doing that?
Beware this feeling: "I worked hard and I made it, while these fuckers dicked around. They don't deserve anything." That thought is entirely focused on yourself, and does nothing but cause suffering in others. What do you wish to do about the others, leaving your own feelings out of it. What is best for society? You know they are not as efficient and hard working as you are, but you really do not know why this is the case. What will you do about that?
Those are the useful questions. Feelings of self righteousness help no one. They harm even you.
plenty of my friends were smarter and more capable than me. they simple chose not to develop their abilities. a lot of them had wealthier parents than me too and didn't have to pay for school like i did. they chose drugs and being deadbeats.
people have free will. do we want to actively subsidize people fucking up their lives? that they choose suffering when they had other options? that's a hard thing to say yes to for the majority of people.
not everyone is an angel who is misunderstood. lots and lots of people are assholes. just look at what happens when rich and successful people have positions of power.... they pull the ladder up behind them. hence the system we have now.
it's not about righteousness, it's about how people behave. and lots of people behave poorly and without consideration for their futures or anyone else around them. they ignore opportunity and abuse privileges.
people really seem to think the rich and evil and the poor are good... but they aren't. they are just people.
nobody owes anyone anything. i'm not talking about theoretical questions, I'm talking about the real world in which people make choices for themselves. and a lot of people choose poorly even when they have good opportunities.