this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024
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How? Without stating how this is accomplished, you’re response is only really saying,
‘you can account for bad actors and power-seekers by living in a perfect world where bad people don’t exist’
If there were an economic system that achieved that it would be a utopia. I don’t know of any utopias on earth.
Equal ownership of the Means of Production. Socialism.
There are still hierarchies in socialist economies. Thats why there is still disparity in socialist economies.
Do you have an example of one of these socialist societies where everyone has equal power?
What hierarchy? Statist hierarchy? That's why the goal of Socialism is Communism, and nobody has reached Communism yet. Do you think we live at the end of history?
Goals are nice. But we are talking about how to achieve an economic system that actually achieves this. Not just sets goals to.
You are claiming Communism and Socialism can do it but when I ask for an example you say they just haven’t done it yet.
If they have existed for centuries but haven’t achieved their goals yet what makes you think they can?
I think it can be achieved because it's based in logical progression of real systems. If I can take your exact same argument and use it against Capitalism in pre-revolution France, with a similar lack of logical foundation, I don't think your argument holds any water. It's more like a strainer than a bowl.
If it just needs to be “based in logical progression of real systems” to achieve the goal, then why has it not succeeded yet after centuries of existence?
My argument that disparity is caused by people pursuing power and not economic systems?
Please explain how your example of France proves my argument wrong.
Because history occurs over time, not instantly.
Here's perhaps the funniest use of your own terrible argument: you believe that humans cannot land on Mars, because it hasn't happened yet, at least if you're at all logically consistent. You also believe the iPhone 20 will never exist, of course.
See why your argument that "if this is what happens over time, why hasn't it happened now?" is horrible? You make no actual analysis, in fact, you run from analysis.
Please make an actual point.
Just because something hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it is guaranteed to happen in the future.
I didn’t think that I needed to explain that to you. I was wrong. Sorry.
I am not saying things can’t happen if they haven’t happened yet.
I am saying if Socialism and Communism have existed for centuries and that whole time they have had disparity. What reason is there to believe that disparity cannot exist in socialist or communist economies?
I didn't say it was guaranteed, I just said it's possible.
Communism has not existed for centuries, except in concept. It has never been achieved.
Do you even know what we are talking about?
Yes, I am talking about why you think Communism is the solution to inequality but it just hasn’t achieved it yet after centuries of existing.
Then you moved the goalpost to claim that communism has never been achieved.
So let’s talk about that now.
Why do you think Communism has never been achieved but at the same time think it is capable of solving inequality?
I didn't move the goalpost, Communism as a concept is a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society that can be achieved after Socialism has built the groundwork for it. It hasn't been achieved yet, because there have been no developed Socialist states yet, and Communism is a global, international system. It takes a long time to get there, it isn't just something that poofs into existence.
So Communism is:
I wonder why it hasn’t been achieved before.
It's a Stateless, Classless, moneyless society. It's hard to build, but it's possible to build towards, and will take time and development to get there.
Godspeed.