It's really kind of pathetic that people who aren't even operating in good faith are so damn good at completely capturing and re-defining words/phrases that originated on the left.

It speaks to the impotence of the left to be unable to control their own fucking narratives while the right-wing jack booted thugs are able to twist the narrative with seemingly no effort at all or attempt to even make their false narrative make sense.

See: COVID and "My Body, My Choice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States.

The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.

I guess the history of the word in the black community doesn't matter? Because racists co-opted it, we have to wipe away the black history of this phrase? Because @Custoslibera@lemmy.world seems to be implying the history of the phrase does not matter, because of how it is used now by fascists operating in bad faith.

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

racists literally intentionally and vociferously assert their conviction that the black community doesn't matter, so, yes literally that. if something originated in the black community, or was prominent in black history, that makes it MORE susceptible to being hijacked by fascists, because that makes it a tantalizing target to them. not only do the ethnonationalist scum get to steal something, they ALSO get to debase and undermine one of their favorite targets while they do so. of fucking course they're going to hijack it.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

...and that means we should just let them?

Because it seems about 800 or so people agreed with the statement in the OP, which is that "woke" is a garbage word only used by fascists.... which in itself is a statement that debases and undermines a right wing target (black history/AAVE). The original post is ostensibly written by a "leftist" based on the things they clearly support, but they're taking a black phrase with a long history, and saying only fascists use that word.

I'm saying the left is being complicit by letting them, and I don't think that's a good thing.

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Who the fuck is WE? There's no solidarity on the left. The plurality is more interested in eating each other alive for clout, making enemies for no good fucking reason, and brainlessly applying the no true scotsman fallacy except "no true leftist". I so fucking desperately wanted to believe there was actually some kind of community here, but every time ANYONE gets into a position where they might be able to organize something greater than themselves the FUCKING crab mentality kicks in and they got DOGPILED. And not an insignificant part of this is driven by sock puppets operated by actual right wingers who are vapidly parroting leftist aesthetics, whipping up a rabid frenzy of torches and pitchforks, and motherFUCKERS on the left KEEP FALLING FOR IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. At this point every time I see someone on the left who is attacking anyone specific, i just drop them and stop engaging. THIS BEHAVIOR is why 'we' fucking lose over and over again.

Instead of trying to punish each other, we should have been working together, but THAT is what "we" have been doing to "let" the right get away with shit. If we don't have solidarity "we" have NO shot of taking ownership of "our" messaging.

to the contrary, leftists don't get to have snappy buzzwords UNTIL AND UNLESS there is a "WE" that has enough coordination to clearly define and DEFEND the definition OF those terms. The left needs to stick to PLAIN TEXT. No more bullshit in-group jargon. "we" can't afford to be an "in-group".

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Okay buddy, while you're practically screaming at me about lack of solidarity, I've had a nice conversation with the person who made the original quote. Get a grip. Maybe it's you?

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago

First of all I'm sorry it sounded like I was screaming at you.

you're not the one at fault for the overarching fuckery.

Second of all my complaint is about a standing pattern of behavior, not specific people, and targeted harassment is the problem. I didn't call for you--or anyone specific--to be excommunicated and shunned, so it is definitionally a separate issue.

[–] lemmingrad@thelemmy.club 4 points 9 months ago

My local political scene is using French, not English nor AAVE. And yet there is a which-hunt in the academia to exclude the "wokes" and the "islamo-leftists". Sorry if my proximate political realities are more important than etymology.

[–] Malgas 3 points 9 months ago

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

–Jean-Paul Sartre

[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 2 points 9 months ago

Dude, I didn't know this - this is super interesting. Thanks a lot for sharing!

[–] BautAufWasEuchAufbaut@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago

Thank you for saying this! I also doubt that replacing the word would do something, since fascists will simply do the same to any other word - except you move the goalposts into their direction, which I for one am not a fan of.