this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
137 points (100.0% liked)
World News
22080 readers
19 users here now
Breaking news from around the world.
News that is American but has an international facet may also be posted here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
For US News, see the US News community.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Funny, I just had a whole bunch of hexbear and ml lemmy tankies dogpile on me for, not even suggesting necessarily that Taiwan seems to desire that it be independent from China, but that if they did voice that opinion democratically, that such a thing should be respected, even if they are a flawed and imperfect capitalist society.
They all seemed to be very certain the Taiwanese people desire a kind of integration into China that would essentially make them either a puppet state or perhaps nominally democratic province.
Well, look at the results. Only 40% voted for the DPP. 60% voted against the DPP. It's just the 2 more pro-China parties got their vote split. Not so in their congress which is now mostly KMT.
So if we take the popular vote, Taiwan voted for status quo, not Independence. China's noticed that and that's why they're not doing another blockade.
But that goes against your narrative so I'll bet you downvote me and ignore the actual votes that do not support your argument.
Cool, uh, anyway, in Taiwan the President is directly elected by popular vote.
So the majority of Taiwanese voted for a President who opposes greater integration/interference/subservience to, whatever you wanna say, with or to China.
In fact this would seemingly necessarily mean that the only way this could happen along with the DPP not also winning a majority in Parliament is that a good chunk of Taiwanese support the KMT and TPP for domestic affairs, but prefer a president, who has more power and relevance specifically to foreign affairs, that opposes integration/interference/subservience with/from/to China.
But please do go on about my narrative while you are either knowingly or unknowingly misrepresenting the most fundamental basics of the situation.
40% is not a majority.
You're right, its a plurality. I misspoke.
Still doesn't change any of the rest of what I said.
Hey at least I can admit and own up to a mistake!
Also worth noting, the TPP candidate, incumbent and now former President Ken Wen-je, is in favor of the status quo with China, in terms of their governmental influence/dominion, meaning continued independent governance when it comes to sovereignty, though this does mean significant economic partnership, in uh, economic terms.
So that's actually roughly 65% of Taiwanese voting for a President that seem to not want Taiwan to become a part of China.
Which would be... a majority.
Damn near a super majority, as us filthy consumeristic and vapid Americans might say.
To actually attempt to venture into the Narrative Construction Zone, one might say that despite one major party in Taiwan with close positions and ties to the Chines Government itself, the momentum seems to be in favor of moving toward /less/ interference from/subservience to/ integration with China, especially where matters of sovereignty are concerned.
Shows how little you understand. KMT wants the status quo, TPP wants to engage China.
And at this point I am sure that when you say that you mean the status quo of Taiwan has always been a part of China.
You are wrong, but keep pushing that narrative!
See, you don't know and try to force your narrative on others. And if we actual Taiwanese people tell you no, you mansplain it to us. This is why I hate people like you.
@Joncash
If there's one here who forces narratives on others than it is you. Your comment shows little respect of others, you even offend them. You obviously do not act here in good faith.
I have stated nothing but facts. TPP wants to engage China.
https://news.yahoo.com/taiwans-opposition-says-towards-better-052635196.html
KMT wants the status quo.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/from-dove-to-hawk-kmts-transformation-and-the-quest-for-new-guardrails-in-cross-strait-relations/
Instead of refuting facts, the above poster resorted to insults. So yes, I insulted him back.
I expect you too will not refute facts but instead keep insulting me.
Engaging with China is a really broad thing to say, from the article that you posted about the TPP:
...
You said the TPP is pro-china, like the KMT, but to me it doesn't read like that at all. China wants reunification, the TPP is highly against that and is willing to fight for their freedom.
KMT isn't pro-China, nor is TPP. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said KMT is pro-status quo and TPP is pro-engagement. Only the DPP wants to completely veer away from China. There also is no evidence that TPP wants to fight for freedom. I have no idea where you are getting that from. They want diplomacy, not war. I don't know why you westerners think of everything in terms of violence. It explains a lot why there's so much violence in the US.
I'm not putting words in your mouth, that's what you said in your comment:
No evidence the TPP wants to fight to keep their freedom? From the article you linked:
And I already posted this from your article but here again:
China is the one threatening with an invasion, but it's the fault of the westerners?
Also: why so aggressive? Isn't that a bit too western for you?
Oops, I miswrote, I meant pro-engagement with China.
As to you quote, here's a more comprehensive article on Ko.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/taiwans-presidential-candidate-ko-wen-je-seeks-a-middle-ground-with-china-attracting-young-voters/ar-AA1mss2T
and here's what he thinks about the possibility of invasion.
Your quote is just saying the same thing that Xi says all the time. That a military needs to be ready for war.
Taken out of context constantly in western news. All XI and Ko is saying that we don't think there will be war, but if it comes to it we need to be prepared.
We're really pulling mansplaining out of nowhere when you don't even know their gender? Super weird.