I find similar issues when I discuss things with liberals. So many are so religiously committed to their parties ideological stances, that they often don’t even realize they are ideological stances, but insist that they’re just “common sense” that the rest of us are too stupid to recognize. No, I won’t support your reactionary policy that neglects the foundational material conditions that create the very issue that you’re seeking to address. No, I won’t succumb to, “Yes what we did was wrong, but we’re past that now” when there has been no meaningful actions taken to ensure that it wouldn’t happen again, and evidence shows that it is still happening and never stopped. No, I won’t cheer on the alphabet agencies just because they’re attacking “the other team”. I think they should be dismantled, and that position doesn’t change based on who they’re attacking right now.

[–] HumbleHobo 15 points 1 year ago

Most all of my friends are pretty liberal, and I enjoy a rousing conversation about policy with them, but the only ideological stances I've ever heard liberals not move on are human-rights type stuff, everything else is on the table. Without talking in vague overtones about generalities, I don't think it's possible to really dig into the issues you are talking about further.

The problem, as I see it, is that many conservative ideologues back in the 80s discovered that you can't get people out to the polls with boring policy stances, so conservatives started pushing wedge issues and the culture war. Ever since then, it's been impossible to pull some people away from their culture war battles. Now, this culture war has escalated so that legislation is targeting specific groups and having direct harm on people. And conservatives are celebrating this harm because there are so many perceived aggreviences already that who cares about actually governing, it's easier to score points on your opponent.

And rich liberals are just sitting back and banking on the outrage at conservative policies to just fix itself without any work. Making peoples lives better involves directly engaging them not speaking about them and around them. So, we are just in this stuck place where the majority is unhappy with everyone, and everyone sticks in their corner because everyone is outraged all the time. Rich people love this situation where everyone is blaming whoever the media is telling them to blame instead of blaming rich people.

Every conversation about how liberals or conservatives are the problem seems to avoid speaking about rich people and their influence on our entire way of life.