this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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The Linux Foundation has become a patent troll (bladerunner.social)
submitted 1 year ago by tux0r@feddit.de to c/linux@lemmy.ml
45 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

It seems that the Linux Foundation has decided that both "systemd" and "segmentation fault" (lol?) are trademarked by them.

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[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 92 points 1 year ago (3 children)

“Patent troll” and “required actions to preserve trademarks” are two totally different things. The former is objectively bad in all ways. The second is explainable if there truly is a trademark and said gear infringes on the trademark and may be excusable if the Linux Foundation is forced to act to preserve their branding (trademark law is weird). It’s even more explainable if this is a shitty auto filter some paralegal had to build without any technical review because IP law firms are hot fucking mess. I’m also very curious to see the original graphics which I couldn’t find on Mastodon. If they are completely unrelated and there was an explicit action by someone who knew better, the explanation provides no excuse.

Attacking any company because the trademark process is stupid doesn’t accomplish much more than attacking someone paying taxes for participating in capitalism.

[–] tux0r@feddit.de 40 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Why does the Linux Foundation even have a trademark process for "segmentation fault"? According to the poster on Mastodon, these words were the whole design.

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 70 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just like champagne only comes from the champagne region of France, true segmentation fault only comes from a linux program shitting itself.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Linux is the imposter here. Segmentation fault refers to how the PDP-(I forget) hardware organized memory. It comes from the original unix implementation which linux has never had any part of.

[–] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They aren’t satinf they have a trademark on the phrase ‘ segmentation fault’. They are saying the artwork called ‘segmentation fault’ contains a trademarked image/logo/whatever

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What is this segmentation fault logo or image? I’m not familiar with anything like that and searching for it hasn’t helped.

[–] FiskFisk33@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

we don't know, the post does not elaborate

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It doesn’t matter because trademark law is about usage and active protection of rights, not origination.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It does matter because projects like *BSD can prove continuous usage of the term. As such either the trademark is easy to break (it is common use), or it can only be a trademark in very specific contexts that are unlikely to apply.

[–] squiblet@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Sure, what I was saying is that whether someone else created it in the 70s isn’t significant for trademark law. If multiple entities have been using it since then without claiming exclusivity would be significant.

[–] deur@feddit.nl 1 points 1 year ago

x86 and x86_64 still have segment registers so it's not exactly entirely archaic, but they're not really relevant so that doesnt change what you said. I dont have the exact details on who implemented segmentation first, so I cant elaborate on that.

[–] Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Aged like fine segmentation fault

[–] Synthuir@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

—Lucy Liubot

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 16 points 1 year ago

Doing a search on the USPTO shows no mark for that combination of words. Did the poster share the design? Because either there’s more to the story on their side or there’s more to the Linux Foundation side. For example, an overworked paralegal with no concept of what terms to include. Alternatively, someone being an asshole with a SLAPP suit. We need more information.

[–] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Segmentation fault is the name of the artwork.

The artwork itself might contain the Linux logo

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You mean Tux? That's under a custom attribution license, with no noncommercial clause

[–] nan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You can look trademarks up. They don’t.

There is more to the story, even if it’s just some overzealous bot or contracted company.

[–] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They might not; that is just the title of the art. The art could have other infringing content.

[–] tux0r@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] lily33@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We need to see the actual artwork to know if it has something infringing. This link means little.

[–] Zatujit@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

Does the back include Linux logo or smth? Otherwise it makes no sense

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] argv_minus_one 63 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have rather serious doubts that this is legit. More likely some joker pretending to be from the Linux Foundation sent Redbubble a takedown request.

[–] projectazar 21 points 1 year ago

I agree. Of the 188 marks registered to "The Linux Foundation" with the USPTO, there does not appear to be a mark for "systemd", "fsck", or "segmentation fault." My guess is this is an imposter claim and the artist should counter notice this claim to Redbubble.

FWIW (and assuming the link works) here's the marks ever registered to the Linux Foundation.

https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4808%3Azqagnv.27.1&p_search=searchstr&BackReference=&p_L=500&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=Linux&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24ON&expr=PARA1+and+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=Foundation&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24ON&a_default=search&f=toc&state=4808%3Azqagnv.27.1&a_search=Submit+Query

[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The complaint is not about the terms "systemd" and "segmentation fault." Those are the titles of the affected artworks. Presumably the artworks themselves contain some trademarked property.

Also, this is utterly unrelated to patents.

[–] Kazumara@feddit.de 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

FSCK Systemd

Segmentation Fault

The content isn't anything to write home about. I don't really get it.

[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago

Thanks for finding these. I couldn't see them, so I assumed they were removed in response to the complaint.

You're right, there doesn't appear to be anything here to object to.

[–] Sorchist@kbin.social 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

this has nothing even remotely to do with patents, fam

but it is indeed bullshit.

the purpose of a "trademark" is to prevent the public from being deceived about what they're purchasing, so you can't sell "Big Macs" on your own because the public might be deceived into thinking they were purchasing a product from McDonalds, which (I assume) has trademarked the use of "Big Mac" for fast food.

I HIGHLY doubt the Linux Foundation owns the trademark for "Segmentation Fault" with respect to random merch, so... yeah 100% bullshit

(The image does also say "Linux IP" in addition to "Linux Trademark" and I wonder what the hell that is supposed to mean, since "IP" covers a multitude of dissimilar things, maybe it's just a vague handwavy assertion they make in order to make a takedown without particularly justifying it?)

[–] ridago@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

Funny you should use Big Mac as an example, since McDonalds actually lost that trademark in Europe due to some legal dispute with a pub in Ireland or something

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok but redbubble is fucking infamous for selling merch with blatantly stolen artwork and logos.

[–] DarkThoughts@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They may act on behalf of others.

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well yes, its a storefront where anyone can sell "their" designs for a cut, the thing is, redbubble has basically no process for making sure that's all happening above board.

[–] DarkThoughts@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm talking about the Linux Foundation.

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ok, then how is your comment relevant in reply to mine about redbubble?

[–] grte@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Are we certain this complaint was lodged by the Linux Foundation? Frequently DMCA takedowns happen because someone who is not the original rights holder made the complaint. Even when there's no actual rights being violated. Essentially people taking advantage of automated systems or just people not wanting to deal with possible legal issues, trolling of a different sort.

[–] SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The Linuses (Lini?) just can't stop screwing up this week.

[–] PlexSheep@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

That's stupid. Can they not just focus on whatever their purpose is?

[–] _cnt0@lemmy.villa-straylight.social 4 points 1 year ago

WTF!

[–] gabriele97@lemmy.g97.top 3 points 1 year ago

Well, good for them that are happy with the segmentation fault (?) Every time I see it I start screaming

[–] Janis@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

again and again: systemd is wrong. lennart poettering and redhat broke the dogma. if you use systemd you should have edge as your main browser.

[–] manpacket@lemmyrs.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

systemd had problems when it was first introduced, but it works much better now and it's not going away. I would suggest to revisit it again.

[–] Janis@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

so arch you say?

[–] argv_minus_one 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

False equivalence. Edge isn't FOSS. Systemd is.

Any forks of systemd will have to be renamed to something obviously different from plain “systemd”, but forks already work that way. We are not, for example, using “XFree86” even though the current X Window System is derived from XFree86 code.

Nor must the program files (shell commands, etc) be renamed. OpenSSH still uses the program file name ssh for compatibility, despite “SSH” being a trademark belonging to someone else.

The only dogma systemd has broken is that booting has to be slow, complicated, and unreliable. Good riddance.

[–] tux0r@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The only dogma systemd has broken is that booting has to be slow, complicated, and unreliable.

This was a solved problem before systemd was a thing. And, even if we assumed that Upstart (2006), OpenRC (2007) and others wouldn't have existed in 2010: How often do you need to reboot your system before the intrusiveness of systemd is worth it?

[–] argv_minus_one 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In Upstart's readiness protocol, daemons are expected to SIGSTOP themselves to signal readiness to the process supervisor. This design is extremely questionable, to put it politely.

OpenRC still relies on System V shell scripts, and therefore is not an improvement.

“[T]he intrusiveness of systemd” means nothing to me. I care about what it can do and how well, not whether it's liked by change-fearing graybeards.

The number of reboots required before the effort to learn systemd becomes worth it is approximately 1. Shell-script-based shutdowns frequently hang, and when they don't, they take 30+ seconds to shut the system down. Systemd can shut the system down in 5 to 10 seconds. Hallelujah and good riddance to what was one of my least favorite parts of the Linux experience.