This release adds an opt-in GrapheneOS network location client providing location detection based on nearby Wi-Fi networks using a local trilateration algorithm run on the device. It fetches a list of nearby Wi-Fi networks from Apple's location service either directly or through a GrapheneOS proxy.
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2025
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Privacy
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Everything about privacy (the confidentiality pillar of security) -- but not restricted to infosec. Offline privacy is also relevant here.
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It currently only has a very basic approach to altitude estimation which we'll be properly integrating into the trilateration algorithm in the near future.
It currently only uses Wi-Fi networks but we'll be extending it with support for using cell towers as a fallback in the near future.
We're in the process of building our own network location database based on scraping all of the cell tower and Wi-Fi data from Apple's service. Scraping all the cell tower data is quick and will be easy to keep rapidly updated. A contributor scraped more than 2 billion Wi-Fi APs over 3 months.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social Curious about the pros and cons of maintaining a separate DB compared to a public project like BeaconDB...
@downey@floss.social If they provide database downloads in an adequate format usable for our service, we can import it with the Apple data. We're free to use multiple sources of data for our service. We can scrape nearly the entirety of Apple's data and then keep it updated regularly via continuous scraping of the same areas which will avoid much need for anything else though.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social Why are you using the Apple's service and not Google's for example? I thought it was better. Is this because of legal issues?
@astroboy@fosstodon.org Apple's service is better for our purposes because it provides the Wi-Fi AP and cell tower location data for the area which can be locally cached in memory. It also means we had to implement a local algorithm for determining the location based on it. Apple's API enables us to scrape their service for data to build our own database by crawling through the data. Google's service would currently work better because the algorithm is smarter than ours but we can improve it to work as well.
@astroboy@fosstodon.org Since we have a local algorithm already, we've already a lot of the way towards implementing entirely offline network location support. We just need to provide a database based on scraping Apple's data for local queries of networks and networks near those. We already have the code to calculate the position from it locally. Google's service does the calculation on their service which prevents mass scraping the data in a similar way and also prevents short term offline use via a cache.
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@astroboy @GrapheneOS Google’s is alreadY available via Play Services
@BucciaBuccia @GrapheneOS True, but it's not available offline, and not through GrapheneOS's proxy. Or maybe I'm wrong about the latter, I actually don't know.
@astroboy @BucciaBuccia We can't scrape Google's data due to how the service is designed and also can't have a similar in-memory cache system. Apple's service is better for our usage. We could add Google's service as an option but it would be entirely server-based with no way to support offline usage either short term via our in-memory cache approach or fully offline via database downloads. Our focus is working towards fully offline network location support so we aren't going to bother with it.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social @BucciaBuccia@mastodon.social Thank you for clarifying. I strongly agree location data should be offline in the end.
This data isn't copyrightable and Apple freely offers it without requiring authentication. It will be the initial basis for our database, but we'll add other sources including an option to send us data from GrapheneOS devices. We'll provide database downloads to support offline network location.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social All of that is amazing! Great work, I'm exited to see it in action!
I assume for it to work either WiFi of WiFi scanning needs to be enabled though, right?
@jana@social.jsteuernagel.de Yes, either Wi-Fi needs to be enabled or Wi-Fi scanning needs to be enabled to allow doing Wi-Fi scans regardless of the Wi-Fi state. There's a new network location option added in the menu for it. We're going to be adding cell tower support too as a fallback approach it can use if there aren't enough nearby Wi-Fi networks. We've also already essentially fully scraped Apple's cell tower data and it will be much easier to provide that for a fully offline mode than the Wi-Fi AP data.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social Very interesting. Thank you!
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
Why not look into ?
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
is this going to be worldwide?
@davidwebb@privacysafe.social Yes. We used Mozilla's cell tower database as an initial seed to scrape essentially all of Apple's cell tower data. We'll be scraping all of their Wi-Fi AP data from around the world too. We can also add other sources of data but we don't really need it beyond having a path forward if Apple ever goes through a multiple year process to phase out having a publicly available network location service. It would be hard for them to do that since their existing devices depend on it.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social Thank you for clarifying.
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@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social just wondering how this might work? Will this be an internal Android function or via a third party open source app like NeoStumbler?
@x_tof@verkehrswende.social It will be first party GrapheneOS functionality built into the OS similar to our network location client.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social thank you so much for the new network location feature!
It's already working like a charm. 🤩
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social are we talking about some sort of navigation or maps app potentially in the future from the team? Cause I feel like it's needed now more than ever.
@cienmilojos@infosec.exchange We don't currently have any plans to make a maps/navigation app. We'll have our hands full replacing or overhauling all of the basic AOSP apps.
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@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
Oh wow, i also contributed in the past to Moz Location, wigle, open cell tower and open wlan with foss clients. 😎👍
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social anecdotally it seems location lock is much faster since this release landed. Kudos!
@fazalmajid@vivaldi.net Did you enable the network location toggle? It should work very well with no satellite reception now if you have a lot of nearby Wi-Fi networks which are mapped well by Apple.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social I hadn’t, but even without it the time to first fix seems much faster. Not sure if this is a placebo effect.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social amazing! Feels like Christmas
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
Privacy drawbacks vs. improved functionality, it seems like a net negative.
@SilverFox1@mastodon.social How is it a net negative to add an opt-in service? For people who need this, it replaces them having to use sandboxed Google Play's network location service. We're also well into the process of making our own network location database to provide the service directly from our server. This will also enable us to host our own SUPL service for providing cell tower data. We're going to support fully offline network location as we've explained in the release notes i.e. no privacy drawback.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
I thought GPS alone work quite well. Leaving wifi/Bluetooth on to improve location leads to more third party tracking and surveillance. Reliable notifications are a much higher priority for me.
@SilverFox1@mastodon.social
GNSS + PSDS works well outdoors and is receive-only and private. It does not work underneath concrete, metal, etc. whether it's an apartment building, mall, tunnel, etc. It can also work badly in downtown areas with large buildings. People want network location and we're providing it.
Wi-Fi scanning is private. It doesn't enable tracking. Bluetooth scanning should be too but it's not relevant since we're not currently planning to use it for our network location client or service.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
Guess I don't see the need or use case for indoor location services.
@SilverFox1@mastodon.social It's not only used for maps and navigation. For example, many dating apps use location detection.
@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
Kinda my point. Privacy phone or dating phone?
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