rule problem : 196

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 80 points 8 months ago (4 children)

We don't know what Biden is saying behind closed doors, but I'd be willing to bet my left nut that he's really angry at Netanyahu.

Bibi knows he would get full support to wipe out Gaza from Trump.

Biden is still trying to help within a certain frame by sending aid and asking Netanyahu to stop killing civilians. But that's only as much as he can do without completely pulling all funding, weapons and ammo. But there's risks associated to that. Especially with the threat of Iran in the middle East. He doesn't want to lose the support of one of the only allies, if not the only one, in the region.

The whole thing is very complex. There's lots of things at play here and it's all a bunch of shades of gray. Nothing is black and white.

However, there's only one thing that's really important here. Trump must lose. A Trump win would be devastating for world peace. I don't think Americans understand enough how much their country is a central pillar for world peace. The Gaza genocide could be nothing compared to the world wide cluster fuck we could be in if Trump wins.

So get your heads out of your asses, swallow your fucking pride and do the world a fucking favor by voting for the only candidate who still has a chance at not bringing a third, and possibly ultimate, world war.

[–] Dippy 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes all of this. And also, even if Palestine was in no way on the ballot in November, that doesn't mean it's not worth it to vote for the guy who is much better in all the ways that are on the ballot

[–] Zoot@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Why are you labeled as a bot?

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[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

He literally said today that he will never stop supporting and arming Israel.

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago

I think a Trump win could mean at least soldiers being sent to Gaza and Ukraine being handed over to Putin in the name of "peace", which would fuel the territorial ambitions of other dictators. A lot of Hungarians are still mad about Treaty of Trianon, see Slovaks as a "fake nation created by the Habsburgs/Jews/communists", and this is only my country. China has it's own territorial ambitions, so are most other regimes.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

for the only candidate who still has a chance at not bringing a third, and possibly ultimate, world war.

Trump hast pulled out US troops from the Middle East. The US strategy for the Middle East and in particular the strategy of supporting Israel no matter what, revolves around perpetual destabilization of the Middle East to prevent the formation of a unified Arab bloc, that would become another global power.

I believe this to be highly implausible. The current US strategy is a danger to peace. Also both Saudi Arabia and Iran are now in the BRICS, so without US divisive interference diplomacy is actually possible in the region.

The whole "Trump will cause WW3" seems to me like a great consipiracy theory peddled to get some of the anti war vote, when the Democrats have been War Hawks since decades. Hillary Clinton campaigned in 2016 on the idea of going to war with Iran. There is many problems with Trump, but on the issue of global war i do not see, why he would be a bigger danger than the Democrats or other Republicans.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Are you serious?

Like someone else said, Trump would likely carpet bomb Gaza indiscriminately. This world increase hate against the US from the Middle East. And would probably encourage certain nations to act against the US.

Trump is also pro Putin. He would let Putin run rampant and he would invade and take over all the old Soviet bloc nations and rule with an iron fist over them. This would put Europe at risk of war. And could potentially drag in NATO members. And have you forgotten that Putin is staunchly against LGBTQ and trans people? This would cause complete chaos.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Where did Trump expand US military presence during his presidency? I only have the examples in mind where he pulled troops out. Also the brief escalation with Iran was, well brief. Torpedising the JCPOA was a destabilizing act, but the war hawks amongs Dems are also fiercly opposing any diplomatic efforts with Iran.

Meanwhile while Biden is talking about "please Israel don't kill so many Palestinians, what are you doing this is bad press for me" he also keeps sending arms to Israel and backing them against every UN measure to demand a ceasefire and humanitarian access to Gaza.

Judging by actions instead of words, i don't see why Trump would be more of a danger to the Middle East than the Democrats are.

I share the criticism of lacking Ukraine support and Putin apologism by the republicans. I am skeptical that this would lead to WW3 in Europe though. Russia did not escalate to nuclear war, like they threatened, for European countries and the US to send more and more and better equipment to Ukraine. Russia having switched to war economy is dangerous as it might necesitate an even stronger focus on war efforts, but i remain sceptical that they would push into an all out war with European NATO countries. Putin is struggling internally to keep power, as we see by both Putin allies and enemys to keep "falling" out of windows. And the russian elites like money, but they don't like getting nuked. Also Russia is more and more dependant on countries like China and India to cover the sanctioned parts and products. Neither country is excited about the economic fallout of a full blown war in Europe.

Finally Putin being staunchly against LGBT people is unfortunate, but i don't see how this would make the prospect of WW3 more likely. We see a recession of pro LGBT stances in the growing fascism and right wing populism in Europe too. These countries will not go to war over LGBT rights. And the growth of these political leanings is aided by Russia, no doubt about it. But the land for these "plants" to grow is kept fertile by neoliberal politics, that are in line with the US Dems economic positions.

This is where the circle closes. We cannot solve Trump, growing fascism in Europe, Putins expansionism and create peace in the Middle East without changing the political direction of US Democrats and similiar political groups in Europe. By saying "ohh this election again we must get the Democrats to win as they are the lesser of two evil" all we do is grow both evils stronger.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Trump didn't have the conflicts we have now during his presidency. Actions instead of words??? You're kidding? You can't compare him to Biden in that regard.

Trump pulling troops out of the Middle-East was him pulling troops out of Afghanistan. And look what happened. The Taliban just walked back in with practically zero resistance and now every woman in the country lost their rights. The decades long work of trying to stabilize that country, dead soldiers from so many countries who tried to bring stability and peace in the region. All lost in a few weeks because of his stupidity.

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[–] Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Honestly the Trolley Problem is a perfect representation of this issue. All leftists in America are being asked to either personally hold a part in a genocide, or to personally abstain and allow greater horrors to be unleashed (including the genocide).

[–] Stoneykins@mander.xyz 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I feel like if it really mapped so cleanly onto the trolley problem, there wouldn't need to be 4 paragraphs of text included throughout the meme in an attempt to head off any arguments...

[–] Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The general election vote itself is the trolley problem, the paragraphs are detailing other solutions beyond simple voting to try and get out of the trolley problem.

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[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 8 months ago (3 children)

This post is the most accurate portrayal of the situation I think I've seen. I'd greatly question someone's moral compass if they liked Biden or approved of his presidency. Whenever this gets discussed, a bunch of status quo warriors pop out of wells to say "Trump is worse." Like, no shit.

[–] neeeeDanke@feddit.de 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Whenever this gets discussed, a bunch of status quo warriors pop out of wells to say "Trump is worse." Like, no shit.

Yes, but it still needs to be said every time because it would be detremental to leave even the tiniest chance for this (valid) critique of Biden to help Trump in the presidential election. That is why I think it's inportant to point out the obvious (Trump is way worse) because it is obvious to most but might not be to some and it would be a massive Issue if those people could take this discourse as reason not to vote for Biden in november.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It seems to me in bad taste when someone's trying to discuss things like the Palestinian genocide or the immigrant concentration camps to then try to make it about a campaign. It effectively derails meaningful discussion about people actually suffering and dying via Biden's bad actions.

Edit: But I do understand your pov. I just disagree with it. The best thing we can do to earn the votes of leftist and progressive voters is to at least make us feel heard. Lecturing us about Trump every time seems like a great way to alienate people.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

thank you! fully agree. i’m slowly getting a handle on this rhetoric posting thing 🙃

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 8 months ago

You're doing great!

If you ever want to post something without dealing with all the bad takes and genocide deniers, come post on !libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone

I created it more or less to keep myself out of pointless arguments lol

[–] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Look he has fucked up the least out of all the modern presidents, so of course people like Biden, this holier-than-thou attitude is what gives online leftists a bad name

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 8 months ago

Yeah because not committing genocide and building concentration camps is too high a bar for a person to clear /s

[–] Stoneykins@mander.xyz 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I just want to point out a thing said in this, that I have seen said hundreds of other times, which is not correct.

Due to the spoiler effect, a leftist vote for a third party candidate is essentially a vote for trump

This is incorrect, most charitably interpreted as an exaggeration, but it is said so often I think people are misunderstanding the spoiler effect.

The spoiler effect is real and it can suppress a victory of not-as-bad candidates if they have a popular opposition, but it is never as bad as "essentially voting for trump". It is equivalent to not voting at all, at worst.

And it is also a simplification of the situation to imply that the spoiler effect only affects democrats. There is a similar thing going on with conservative third parties.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 8 months ago

eh, you're still effectively supporting trump by not voting for the party that can actually win instead.

It's not as bad as voting for trump, but it's still giving him a better shot at winning than he would have if you voted for biden

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 5 points 8 months ago

you know what, you are absolutely correct and i would have the same criticism about this post if i saw someone else post it.

i think my mind slipped when i was putting it together and typed words that meant more than i did. my fault.

ill make an effort to fix this.

[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Primary season is almost over, your chances of getting this done is narrowing.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

excellent it’s almost over with 😅 hoping biden responds well

[–] gayhitler420@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not pictured: a giant hand holding the lever flipper in place, forcing their participation and complicity in one major candidates genocidal intentions over another.

There’s always time to walk away from omelas.

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 8 months ago (9 children)

To accuse others of being complicit for voting you first have to admit voting works in some way.

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[–] David@lemy.lol 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

What do you guys think about Robert F Kennedy Jr?

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

antivax transphobic liar

[–] David@lemy.lol 2 points 8 months ago

Do you have link to something where he is transphobic? I'm curious

[–] cobra89 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Have you looked into him at all?

[–] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 4 points 8 months ago

Yes.

Source: I'm his dentist

[–] David@lemy.lol 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Not that much, but what i've seen wasn't that bad.

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 8 months ago

Well here he is bragging he's been on Epstein's plane multiple times and hangs out with the worse people: https://youtu.be/kyoihBa2HC4

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

disturbing comment

liberals will call me a “useful idiot” for making this post when accounts like this literally exist lmao

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[–] Daxtron2@startrek.website 3 points 8 months ago

Schizo

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[–] colin@lemmy.uninsane.org 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Spoiler effect" is so dumb. like oh, i'm the bad guy for voting for the candidate that you agree is better than the one you voted for??

give me a break. i'm literally not the one to blame for that.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 2 points 8 months ago

i agree the spoiler effect is dumb. and you’re not the bad guy, the system is.

there are solutions to the spoiler effect problem but when seeking to save lives it tends to help to work within the bounds of the (broken) system.

[–] _MusicJunkie 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

did you not see the new rule yesterday https://beehaw.org/post/12350442

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

i did so please let me post my political shitposts in peace please :)

[–] glizzyguzzler@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Some political shitposts, as a treat if you will