...just mayyyyyybe it's beecause they sell the uniform supply contract and make a lot of money for their budget from it? Dunno.
this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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The flip side of the coin is, if parents buy cheaper uniforms they don’t have to buy more expensive, name brand clothes for their children. The school also avoids situations where kids with wealthy parents bully kids from poorer families.
There is probably also an argument for it helping to build school or team spirit, unity etc etc
I went to public school. I never noticed anyone being bullied for wearing cheap clothes.
Kids were more likely to be bullied for how they acted, and it was normally stuff which kinda made sense (not justifying bullying).
I also went to a public school. Kids were definitely singled out for the brands and perceived value of the clothes they wore. There was definitely a pressure to keep up with the latest trends and styles, including those at other schools around the city.
Nothing is as draconian as school uniforms. School uniforms don't solve the inequality problem at all as there are always other personal belongings where it can be demonstrated. That being said, any institution that decides what clothes someone else should or should not wear is deeply authoritarian. Of course, there may be certain scenarios where such authoritarianism is necessary. Schools however do not fit such scenarios.
Tell me you’re not a parent without telling me you’re not a parent.
Draconian? My kids wear a school polo over regular blue shorts and sneakers, public school isn’t like Hogwarts.
I’d much rather get them to wear that than fuck around making sure their favourite shirt is washed or having to buy some name brand shirt because the cool kids all have one.
I'm not a parent, but I graduated from highschool a few years back. Our school had compulsory uniforms. Clothes and general appearance are integral to one's personality. After I got out of high school, I had absolutely no dressing sense. I had no idea what clothes I liked, what styles I liked, what colors I liked n so on. School was my life. Outside school, I didn't hang out with my buddies outside of sports related activities. Hence, casual wear was an afterthought.
After I got out of school though, I began to explore and unlocked a part of my identity that had been forcefully locked away by school. Today, I don't buy any expensive or branded clothes at all. I choose my clothes based on their color and style. I'm not the show off type in any sphere of my life, because I wasn't raised that way. I was told "no" whenever it was necessary. You know... Parenting?
Don't your kids do their own laundry? Also, can't you say "no" to kids for that hypothetical expensive branded shirt?
Is it really worth stifling your kids' identity for convenience?
Agreed. At the my kids' school (this was years ago), shirts and pants were part of the uniform, but socks weren't regulated. Saw so many kids wearing goofy socks and carrying other things to just to differentiate.
The parents that had pushed for uniforms to be adopted (the principal relented to their demands while my kids were attending) admitted they mainly wanted uniforms so they wouldn't have to deal with their children's clothing choices/wishes. Reaction among parents was split, largely on gender lines (not the parents', but their kids' gender).
Like... How is it more difficult to say "no" to your kids than changing public policy regarding what clothes individuals wear? How are these kids supposed to be responsible individuals of the future who protect freedom for all, when they are taught to obey orders about their clothing choices from a bureaucracy of old people? How is this not indoctrination in obeying authority without question?
Oh my.. you might be getting just slightly carried away there
Am I though? What are the Hijab bans, drag queen bans, etc. then? Are they simply not extensions of these policies? Making it acceptable to regulate clothing (when there is no need to do so) in schools will ultimately lead to it applying for adults as well. Which uhh is actively happening?
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School uniform for me back in the day was a white shirt, grey pants, and leather shoes. The only "school" part of the uniform was a tie and blazer with the school crest on it. And I even went through all of high school never purchasing said blazer.
This was in NZ nearly 15 years ago.
My point being, uniforms shouldn't be breaking the bank. If schools would simplify the uniform as to not be that unique to the school, they might be able to drive down cost as more readily available clothing could be used to make up the uniform.
Mine was grey shorts and a blue polo shirt with a school logo that cost $90. If you wanted to be warm in winter it was like $70 for a jumper. There was only one shop that sold it in the whole town.
There are many reasons to have school uniforms. Growing up in a school system that does this for elementary and middle school:
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it allows the wardrobe to be much more simplified so students don't have to figure out what to wear that day.
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Kids don't have to get jealous of others for wearing fancy brand names or maybe in some bad areas they'll do gang colors or something.
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The prices are generally ok, I was never complaining at the prices.
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It might reinforce dressing up professionally even if the clothes aren't the most comfortable.
The way my school district worked it never looked for the brand names or anything, just so long as it fit the guidelines.
All those are perfectly good reasons for school uniforms in general.
And then your school implements a uniform policy that requires you to buy a blazer for $225 that your child will wear three times a year, and monogrammed socks that are 3 pairs for $45.
That feels like an extreme case. I feel like this would only happen in an upper class private school.
Public schools here are insane. It's like £50 for one sweater. And it's got to have the school name/ logo on it. So you can't just go and buy a generic sweater the same colour.
And you've got to have at least 2, so when one is getting washed, you'd have one good to go.
There's black shoes, not trainers, but smart shoes.
White shirts. Black pants/ skirts. Specific socks. £15 a tie, which is specifically in school colours so no going out to buy a cheap generic tie.
Then there's the PE kit that has to be bought from the school. £20 for shorts. £20 for the polo. £10 for football socks.
Altogether when you're done it's around £300. Which, if you're generally working class/ out of work, you're fucked.
My sweaters faded after half a year, so mum had to buy more. They'd of fit me the entire time, but she had to buy new ones pretty much every 6 months because they just faded in the wash. And that was in the 00s. My mum hates buying uniform for my younger sisters, apparently it's crazy priced.
Now schools here are doing blazers too, god knows how much they are.
@thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith Playing devil's advocate for a moment, the flipside to all this is that high school kids can be incredibly judgemental when it comes to fashion. Teenaged girls especially, but boys too.
Especially in mixed-income or aspirational middle class areas, you will have parents who will pay up to buy designer labels and Nike/Adidas footwear for their little precious.
Then you have the kids whose parents have more limited means, and who wear hand-me-downs or stuff they get from Kmart or Target.
Immediately, that brings class into the classroom. It says to the working class kids that you are less than.
Having a uniform — ideally one that can be purchased from a discount department store — levels that playing field.
And yes, uniforms are authoritarian. Had you asked me 20 years ago, I'd have wholeheartedly agreed they need to be banished.
What changed my mind was talking to a former neighbour, around 10 years ago, who had been a working class kid raised by a single mum.
She'd originally went to high school at a selective entry school that didn't have a uniform. And she constantly felt left out, and the better off kids whose parents could afford to buy them nicer clothes regularly picked on her.
She eventually changed schools to one that had a set uniform.
So school uniforms can be egalitarian — as long as they're affordable.
@ajsadauskas @thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith CROWN Act. i've been getting sexually harassed about my hair since i was 12 years old, regardless of the uniform. what's the bloody cost outside of the class reduction?
@ajsadauskas @thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith TBH I think the culture and economic situation of the families plays a bigger role than whether or not uniforms are present. I also went to a school with uniforms, and the wealthier kids found plenty of other ways to mark their class status and segregate themselves from the poors.
If all the kids' families have access to the same wealth there's less opportunity for wealth segregation to occur IMO.
...Which I know sounds a bit obvious but I guess my point is leaning more towards the necessity of wealth redistribution 😅
I wouldn't mind uniforms, if they weren't like 3 times the price of regular clothes.
My school sweater was a blue v-neck. But it had to have the school name and logo on it. So it was £50.
If they'd just said, v-neck royal blue sweater and let people buy their own from whatever store, that's fine. We had specific ties too, so if they just said we had to buy the ties from the school but the PE shorts/ netball skirts, football socks, polos and the school sweater should have been able to be purchased from any old store.
I agree, non-uniform days were hell for me. I was the kid of the working class parent, and the emo/ goth kid. I didn't own anything that wasn't fitting of my aesthetic. So I got bullied badly. So I appreciated the uniform. But the prices are the issue. And school that demand girls wear skirts and not trousers, I have a huge issue with that. If girls want to wear trousers, it shouldn't be an issue. It makes me question whether the people implementing the rules are just sexist, or sexist and pervvy.
@thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith @ajsadauskas As I understand it, the theory is that you have to buy the uniform from Official Supplier so that the richer kids won't get a better-quality blue V-neck sweater or whatever. But yeah, the instant something becomes a uniform item, triple or more the price, because what you gonna do?
@RogerBW @thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith @ajsadauskas the school my parents sent me off to, which was not at all egalitarian, had a whole second-hand uniform resale process which seemed to work well
When you're paying £50 for a sweater, that's basically rich kid sweater anyway. £50 for me is basically 2 weeks of groceries if I shop wisely.
It's just insane they think that cost is acceptable just because it has a school logo on it.
And honestly, where I'm from. There wasn't really rich kids. There was 1 kid in a school of 750 who came from a family with money. So it makes even less sense.
@thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith @ajsadauskas
a few years back I started a discussion about which countries had uniforms (its not universial, and tends to be the UK and Commonwealth mostly); and a parent from USA said their school has an approved dress/colour code but not full branded uniform which is a lot better as it doesn't tie parents to getting their clothes from a handful of places
@ajsadauskas @thepixelfox @Zagorath @pineapplelover @dgriffith
Totally agree. In Australia and NZ most school uniforms are simpler, and therefore more affordable than the UK, typically just a polo style shirt and trousers, rather than blazers and ties. Also more practical.
Having a uniform — ideally one that can be purchased from a discount department store — levels that playing field.
Except it doesn't. The rich kids just buy expensive undershirts, socks, necklaces, wallets, glasses, etc. even if they don't they will judge each other based on their parents cars. I have been here and experienced it. All uniforms do is make a store working with the school some money.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Meredith Hagger, principal solicitor with Youth Law Australia, says in Queensland the education department's policy dictates that schools must have strategies in place to help families afford uniforms.
"That can include cost reduction, financial support, payment plans, or more time to buy school uniforms," she says.
"If you've got a uniform that restricts your movement and you're a primary schooler, then you can't turn cartwheels and do all those normal things that kids do to let off steam at break [time].
Private schools can be about as strict as they like when it comes to uniforms and dress codes, provided they don't breach laws that prohibit discrimination against people because of their gender, race, culture, or sexuality.
Ms Hagger says such policies and dress codes must meet strict guidelines set by the state's education department and there are limits to how they are enforced.
"And as a student, you can't be given a consequence that damages your academic or career prospects for breaching the dress code."
The original article contains 821 words, the summary contains 166 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Because public schools have to compete with private schools, the uniforms make them look comparable and has more of an effect on the parents perception of value of the school.
Each public school gets funding dependant on enrolment, the end result is absurd pricing for single income parents. When I was in High School we could get a $7 shirt from Big W and look identical to other students minus the logo.
There are exactly two reasons why schools mandate uniforms: greed and/or authoritarian leanings.
I always thought it was funny that bringing in blazers was the sign of a failing state school, in the UK at least.
Ofsted good/excellent? Polos and fleeces are fine, it's all good.
Requires Improvement/Inadequate? Shit, better get all the scrotes in cheap blazers that cost £50 so we can ape the private school down the road.