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‘Get Down’ From the Car. ‘Make’ the Line. Is Miami English a Dialect? (New York Times) (www.nytimes.com)

submitted 1 year ago by FZDC to c/poc

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This article, from a few weeks ago, describes the linguistic phenomenon where a highly bilingual community starts incorporating direct translations of phrases from Spanish, to where those non-standard phrases get adopted by English speakers who don't even speak Spanish themselves.

I thought it was interesting, because I've seen this very same phenomenon play out in Chinese American communities, where certain Chinese idioms or phrases (especially of prepositions) tend to show little remnants in the English translation of that idea.

Have you seen this in your bilingual community? What are your favorite examples?

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[–] FZDC 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My favorite example, in Chinese-speaking families, is just how common it was for people to say "open"/"close" the lights, instead of turning on/off the lights.

Also, in Chinese, "no" is not a complete sentence in answering a yes/no question, so the way one generally says no is to just repeat the verb in the negative: "Are you going to the store?" is answered with "Not going." So sometimes native Chinese speakers repeat the verb when speaking in English, too.

And my personal favorite example, is how the phrase "long time no see" entered the English lexicon: the two leading theories are that it either came from Native American or Chinese speakers. I wouldn't take sides on that debate, but will note that it pretty directly fits a direct translation of the Chinese phrase.

[–] TheOtherJake 4 points 1 year ago

I find it interesting how much of a difference things like "not going" versus "no" can create just under the surface. Like we can't really address them in-situ directly, but they do have an impact in many situations.

Just to pick on this example in hyperbolic magnified context, "not going" is like argumentative banter IMO, whereas a simple "no" is concise and respectful.

I grew up in the southeastern USA, where racism and stupidity are common. The tendency is for isolated communities and ostracism. Personally, I try my best to be aware of this so that I can avoid acting this way as much as possible.

Nearly twenty years ago I had a business relationship with a Taiwanese man. We got along fine, we even had a lot of peripheral interests in common, but the subtle cultural differences made him difficult for me to do business with. So much of business and negotiating is about reading people and subtle context. A lot of that gets lost between the language cracks with stuff like "not going" has more contextual impact.

I've lived in Southern California for many years now. Here Spanglish is common. Nothing stands out IMO as something worth mentioning. I'm sure there are instances. I just don't pay much attention to it. I do notice how living in an openly mix culture makes a gigantic difference in how people tend to lean into prejudice. I haven't been to many other cultural regions, but intuitively, I imagine this is universal; where any regional culture that tends to isolate will also display prejudice amongst the least intelligent members of the group.

I wonder if these compatibility divisions are really something deeper and related to evolutionary forces at play. Like if all complex life displays this same type of social isolationism at various levels that ultimately drives speciation. I don't mean that in any kind of justification for isolationism or prejudice. It is just an observation of the forces that divide and maintain the division, like a social component in addition to geopolitical factors and time.