this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
9 points (100.0% liked)

Liberty Hub

7 readers
1 users here now

  1. No Discrimination, this includes usage of slurs or other language intended to promote bigotry
  2. No defending oppressive systems or organizations
  3. No uncivil or rude comments to other users
  4. Discussion, not debate. This community is exclusively for genuine logical debate, any comments using whataboutism or similar will be removed.
  5. No genocide denial or support for genocidal entities. Anyone that supports the mass murder of civilians will be banned.

These guidelines are meant to allow open discussion and ensure leftists and post-leftists can have a voice. If you are here to learn, then welcome! Just remember that if you're not a part of the left (Liberals don't count) then you are a visitor, please do not speak over our members.

founded 8 months ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 months ago (7 children)

The goal post may have moved, but if he's going to do these things anyway and we're not allowed to apply pressure to him to ... just stop -- then what even is the point? It's just a slower descent into fascism. Project 25 is happening either way, just depends on how much time it takes to get there. Go into any Democrat space and criticize Biden, and watch what happens. They don't want him to do better. They're perfectly fine with him, and they even think he's doing wonderfully! The moment he started opening more camps and leftists responded with "what the fuck," we had establishment Democrats crawling out of whatever sludge they live in to chide us for it. (You should have seen r/LateStageCapitalism at that time -- it was swarming with Democrats who'd come there just to do so.) "He has no choice!" Actually, he does. They just don't want to change the oppressive, racist status quo because they're living comfortably in it.

And it's not just the domestic fascism that Biden is committing -- he's literally supporting a full-out genocide. As in, he's the number one reason this genocide is possible in Palestine. When people say Biden is committing genocide, that's no exaggeration.

I'm wrestling with this because I have loved ones who have been imprisoned and deported under Biden. I'm just supposed to suck it up and vote for this motherfucker? I'm just supposed to ignore all the dead children I've seen pictures of in Palestine, the rampant starving, all of this made possible by Biden?

And just you wait. Someone will come here and tell me that I'm the one acting privileged, as if I'm not a poor gay person with half my family here as first-gen immigrants from Mexico. Makes it really hard to vote for the guy when his supporters have shown time and time again that they have no intention of pressuring him to change. What even is the point then? In that case, he's just a politer Trump.

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 months ago (6 children)

I'm not going to say you gotta vote for him, he's digging his own grave. But I will say however bad it is, it can always get worse.

Do you consider those who voted "uncommitted" as a supporter of his? Like I know Biden wants us to think he has broad support, but he's been avoiding public events from fear of protest. He wants us to think it's only Muslims that are upset over the atrocities against Palestinians. But the truth is he is wrong, even his own "supporters" are sick of his bullshit.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Also, don't forget that 70 some percent of Democrats support Israel and say there's a border crisis. How can you say his supporters are "sick of his shit"? That's so obviously wrong. He's doing exactly what they want him to do.

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Specifically talking about the ones who are voting uncommitted though. If they do that then they recognize that Joe is supporting an ongoing genocide. They aren't the ones who are saying "won't someone think of the campaign" unless it is to say he is alienating marginal groups that is putting his re-election at risk.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sure, fair enough. If they're voting uncommitted, I'd assume they don't approve of his actions regarding Palestine or his treatment of immigrants/refugees. That's fair.

I also totally understand not wanting Trump to win, but unfortunately this has been used pretty consistently to shut down any criticism of Biden whatsoever, so I'm immediately on guard when I see someone doing so. Like, even in threads where I say repeatedly that I voted for Biden and that I'm willing to do so again if it comes to that (in the general election, not the primary) -- that's still not enough for them, because criticizing Biden "hurts the campaign," which to me is extremely distasteful and even ghoulish to say when there are people suffering and dying due to Biden's actions.

Meanwhile, practically all the reasons I wouldn't vote for Trump are things that Biden is currently doing:

The wall

The concentration camps

The genocide

The use of torture

The hostility to equitable healthcare

The anti-LGBTQIA+ policies

Like, remind me again why voting for Biden is better? All the things they said would be better under Biden are the same as they were under Trump. Like, I get that Trump is also threatening a fascist coup, but all the things I would fear under a fascist coup are already happening under Biden. It just goes around in circles in my mind.

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Cynically, It's like a one-way ratchet to the right with the two parties.

I would say there's other things like the resurgence of unions and anti-monopoly enforcement that would absolutely not happen under a Republican regime. And some of those unions (ie UAW) have publicly come out against the genocide.

It would be a bit of a stretch to say Biden is pro-union though. For instance, even though the outcome worked out in the railroad workers' favor, Biden had to make sure he had the agency and authority, and he ultimately did disenfranchise and silence workers in the process. The outcome was good, but it should have come from the bottom-up instead of the top-down. Biden ensured that it could not.

Cynically, It’s like a one-way ratchet to the right with the two parties.

I think this is absolutely true, and it makes me feel validated as an anarchist to see the truth in the observation that all states gradually descend into fascism at varying rates -- but I'd rather not feel validated. I'd rather that the liberals were right and that we could fix everything within the system -- but it's become increasingly evident that we cannot. I can cast my vote for Biden to buy us more time, but that's where my optimism ends -- we need to be doing more than voting. And we should definitely be applying as much criticism and pressure to the sitting president as we possibly can. If that criticism hurts his campaign, well then he has the option to just stop so that the criticism stops.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)