If you want to support Linux devs and continued development, I would buy from System76, Tuxedo Computers, or even Framework.
If you're going to buy used then yeah the Thinkpad is fine.
this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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Framework laptops are op buy it once use it for ever
They're also significantly more expensive than ThinkPads and might be a bit much for what OP plans to do
This is definitely the biggest concern. Somewhat short battery life is also significant.
For ThinkPads?
No, Framework. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Oh it's fine. Do Framework laptops have a lower battery life than ThinkPads?
Than Thinkpads? I don't know, but probably lower. My Framework only gets 8 hours of use, and 30 hours sleeping if I'm lucky. Definitely not the best, but being plugged in isn't too bad, and the adapter is nice and small.
For a new laptop, the initial cost is higher. But the idea is that future maintenance and upgrades would significantly lower the long-term cost of laptops. If a part breaks, you don't need to buy a new laptop, just that part. If a new CPU comes out that you want, just upgrade your mainboard for less than the cost of a new laptop.
I hear this a lot but in my experience the Framework is often in the same range and sometimes slightly cheaper. Right now a framework with i7-1360P and 16GB Ram is $1469. An X1 carbon with a (slightly slower) cpu is $400 more. Ryzen is similar. Not hating on Thinkpads but the Framework is a lot more competitive than you'll often hear and the upgradeability is obviously a massive financial incentive too.
I think normally when people are referring to buying a ThinkPad they aren't talking about a modern model. Usually not even the X1 Carbon series; especially past the 6th gen. They're referring to models in the X,P, or T series before the T490. Models that can be bought relatively cheap and upgraded however the user wants.
The T480 can be bought for around $200. The CPU is going to be a fair amount weaker but for $1,200 some people are willing to make the sacrifice for a casual personal use machine.
That makes sense. Buying used is always going to be more economical (and ecological) than new, no matter how "anti waste" it is.
I think a Framework laptop could make sense for a power user who is using it for work or gaming but I feel like upgrades are needed less frequently with web browsing, coding, and word processing.
I'd be curious to see how many people essentially use ThinkPads as a secondary computer that's just a bit more traditional and customizable than a Chromebook.
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Framework
If you order it now you only have to wait til April!
(yes I'm on the wait list)
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I wouldn't buy thinkpads anymore... Recent models are not good quality. Mouse pad broke on my first one, and keyboard on the second one. This was ThinkPad Carbon 8 and T14 I believe.
They used to be great but no longer, even though notebookcheck keeps giving them top marks in reviews.
Completely agree. Had to fix a coworkers year old thinkpad. Had motherboard, then bios, then graphics issues. It's been a complete nightmare
My T430 has outlasted my X1 extreme. It was built differently
T480 is the last good Thinkpad. Even T490 is a huge downgrade.
T430 or X230 if you're into modding. The opportunities for modding them are endless. Keyboard from xx20-series (best ever made for laptops), FHD IPS panel, re-celling the battery with 18650-cells, second storage drive with mstata mod.. If I remember right, T430 cd bay can be replaced with secondary battery too.
The old models are compatible with FreeBSD too.
My T480 does everything I need. Picked it up for $200 and spent another $100-$150 to get brand new batteries, a pretty good screen, much faster storage, and upped it to 24GB of RAM. Pretty awesome. Pop!_OS runs like a charm.
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I went away for a few hours, wow, all the replies! Thanks all!
I ended up going with a refurbished T480s. Wanted something I could upgrade memory/storage on. The form factor and the metal case also sounded appealing. Should have it in a week.
Where did you buy it? Looking for something similar for myself.
Found one refurbished on eBay. I'll report when I get it as to the quality
FWIW ThinkPad is not IBM anymore. I assume it's obvious but just in case it's not 100% clear, a Chinese company (Lenovo) bought the brand 2 decades ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad
I'm not arguing that the quality or Linux support changed since then, just make it explicit in case somebody might ride on the nostalgia of once great hardware devices.
PS: I rocked an X31 with ratpoison a while ago, before the times of MacBook Air and I was convinced I was pretty cool.
If you go web browsing and text editing just get a 2nd hand one. Most laptops can do that. I would just replace the HD with an SSD if it doesn't have one.
I have an old hp laptop of 12+ years. But hp is a bitch to replace the HDD. So that was an adventure.
Yeah I can explicitly not recommend modern HP or Toshiba laptops for reliability reasons. I've had serious hardware and structural issues with both. Also, in general 2-in-1s will break at the hinge in less time than other laptops. Lenovo 2-in-1s specifically have known issues with the hinge which can shatter the screen. If you want durability, go for a more traditional form factor with no touchscreen.
Edit: oops thought you said 2-in-1
No problem. Good to know that information
I love getting years of good service from old computers, but I do want to add something: old laptop means old battery, and if they're not producing the same form factor anymore, then even a replacement battery will probably be old stock that's been degrading for years. Unfortunately I don't know what company's models have the best longevity here in terms of battery form factor.
I agree. Though off-brand batteries can be a good replacement, if you find a reputable brand. I've replaced my battery with a bigger capacity off-brand battery, and it's been working like a charm for 4 years now.
T480 is solid. I think those still had fully upgradable RAM slots, the T490 series started having soldered single slot so you could only upgrade one of them. T470s are starting to be a little long in the tooth, but still solid for the kind of tasks you are looking for.
On eBay they can be had for $200-$300 depending on model.
I got a used ThinkPad T480s and installed 40 GB of RAM in it for Qubes OS. It's modern enough to charge over USB-C, so one plug for everything. I also have a MacBook I use for school and both are solid.
Second for this. Got one myself. 1080p, USB C, upgradable ram, I replaced the internal and external batteries no problem. I stuck a second SSD inside last weekend and replaced the thermal paste in about 20 mins. If you like tinkering and being able to repair and maintain yourself it's really great.
Got win 11 on one SSD and Debian on the second and all running well.
Wow I just learned I could put a second SSD in the WWAN slot! Sounds awesome for a dual boot setup.
Yeah, was easy peasy. Bought the sad off eBay. Be careful which SSD you pick up only specific ones fit, I think there's a thread on Lemmy somewhere. I used a western digital sn520 2242 m.2. A 256 one. I think 512 exist but harder to source.
T480. Still good availability. It was popular with companies that put them back into th e market a few years ago.
Last model without glued RAM. So it's upgradable and you can install two M.2 drives. One with 2240 length and a full-size 2280 in the main drive bay.
The battery setup is great as well. One internal battery plus an external you can choose depending on your needs. Either small and light for a bit more juice or big and heavy for max runtime.
I got one 6 months ago and couldn't be happier.
I use a t480 for my carry laptop with Gentoo. It's been solid. Replaced both batteries pretty easily, replaced thermal paste, and it's good to go again. I paid about 160 got it. I had a t460 as well, but gave that to my gf. Either of those were good and not too expensive for a semi modern computer for general usage.
T or P series refurb from eBay.
Your use-case says "ARM laptop" to me.
Pros: Get some kind of SoC laptop, and never worry about battery charge again. They're also lighter-weight and better at thermal management. Right now, Linux on ARM is still kind of fledgling so there's not as many apps made to run on ARM natively; the upside is that since there's not as many possible combinations of hardware, there aren't nearly as many edge case bugs and issues.
Cons: If you want youtube in 1080p+ and 60 fps or if you want to use Visual Studio (instead of something lighter-weight), you'll either want the most powerful SoC laptop on the market (probably something by Apple), or not SoC at all. Same goes if you want to have like 5+ programs opened at once and 10+ tabs open on firefox. If you're on the opposite side with me and don't mind if the video is 30 fps or the resolution is 720i and using vim as an IDE, you can get away with something dirt cheap. The other downside of course being the inability to upgrade hardware, which goes hand-in-hand with the reduced hardware combinations aforementioned. Also, since it's not as widely adopted/developed, there are more standard case bugs/issues.
It does force a more minimal approach to computing—it's not powerful, and it's on the lower-end of ARM laptops—but my Pinebook has only done well by me. The security/privacy factor of Pine was also a big plus.
got a t470 refurb for $150 last year and have been very happy with it.
Can't beat an X230 with an i5 for that use case, and you can still find them for around 100 bucks. Swap in an X220 keyboard, maybe a new battery, coreboot it, and in my opinion you've got the perfect laptop. I've daily driven that setup for the last 5 years and it's been great.
I recommend the same. For OP's use case, it's the best bang for your buck by far.
I have been very happy with my X1 Extreme. I did have an issue with the keyboard and later the touchpad, but I paid for onsite support so it wasn’t a big deal. They came out a day later and fixed it right there at my dining table.
I would say buying a ThinkPad is worth it for their paid support options alone. When I had a keyboard problem on my old MacBook, AppleCare took like 10 days to fix it. Lenovo’s premium support is reasonably priced and they don’t mess around. A person picks up the phone when you call and they treat you like you are important. If it’s a hardware problem, they are not fucking around. They don’t care how it happened or ask a bunch of questions. It’s covered and they are fixing it. Fast.
The X1 is also super easy to work on. It’s easily disassembled with normal tools and upgradable parts like SSD and RAM are right there when you open it up. They don’t do dumb things like solder in the RAM or leave you without an open slot. This thing is designed to be repairable.
Linux support is flawless.
I picked up a yoga 6 on sale from Lenovo three years ago for about $800. SSD + ryzen. Works perfect on linux, the only problem was a faulty fan replaced under warranty, since then been great, could probably find a used one for pretty cheap
My current personal laptop is a ThinkPad 13 2nd Gen. I believe it was released in 2017. It was my work laptop for 4 years and was gifted to me by the employer. During those 4 years as a work laptop it proved its worth---9 hours of teaching per day plugged into a projector. Once it was mine I slapped Linux on it. Today, the battery still lasts 10 hours.
So, definitely look into getting something used. You probably don't need the best of the best. If I had to choose right now I would rank my needs and try to get something close enough.
An i3 or equivalent might be fine, and i7 might be overkill. Something with an i5, perhaps? Lots of people say 8GB is the minimum for RAM, my computer has 6GB and works. But, if I were going to buy today I might take 16GB just as future-proofing. I would also need that USB-C.
Browse around sites like https://linux-hardware.org/ before purchasing to make sure you don't get any surprises.
Speaking of surprises, I would take anything with Nvidia just in case, and whatever model I take would need to be reparable or upgradable.
If you decide on buying new, you might as well take a look at the vendors mentioned by other users. System76, Slimbook, Framework, StarBook, and so on will hurt your wallet a bit, but at least you know the hardware won't result in time lost troubleshooting.
It doesn't matter, every one of them will spy on you
Isn't that why a lot of people recommend ThinkPads? So they can run libreboot
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Gonna drop Novacustom/System76 here. Laptops with open firmware are key
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