If anything, I'm really glad how Europe has stepped up and started cooperating more as a consequence of US actions these past few months.
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The Chinese jokingly call Trump "Comrade Jianguo", because of how his trade war has made China become more independent and stopped relying as much on American companies.
In the same way Trump's latest tantrum seems to be good for the Europe.
That's the Trump bump! And it's only been eight weeks.
Or is it hump ๐ค?
Please expand it to Canada too. We need a real alternative to Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Discover.
Canada shares a land border with Denmark and a maritime border with France.
I think that is sufficient to include them in any extended EU schemes.
(To the degree that they want it, of course)
France shares a land border with Brazil, we should get them into the EU as well.
I can support this.
Brazil and Suriname back into the European world.
๐ง๐ท๐ธ๐ท
Oof, yeah, sounds bad when you phrase it like that.
Yes, more European colonialism. That worked out really well in the past...
Oh wait.
Canada shares a land border with Denmark
๐ค
A maritime border with France.
๐ค
Canada shares a land border with Denmark
Brave men & women fought over Hans Island in the Whisky War, and the resulting land border is a testament to their bravery, livers, and the determination to find a longlasting solution to land disputes!
Isn't that about that disput where everynow and then a group of military from each country would go up a hill, plant a flag and leave a bottle of booze, just for the other country to take it down and swap the bottle?
If so, I've seen less convoluted ways to make friends.
Yes. It was solved in 2022 by dividing the island by a natural rift. However it was also decided that anyone who come to the island can travel the entire island without border control.
Finally! Crazy bickering.
Hans Island in the Arctic for Denmark and Saint Pierre and Miquelon, which is a small island off the eats coast of Canada, which remains a part of France.
We also administer Vimy Ridge in France. While it isn't Canadian territory, we have been granted permanent usage of it. It's a little bit like a land border. :)
GNU Taler seems to be a good thing to look into. Not a crypto currency but a payment system which preserves anonymity of the buyer.
Yay GNU Taler is very promising, but I fear banks prefer proprietary systems.
It may become widely used if there's strong customer demand for GNU Taler, or regulation requiring an open electronic wallet. Most banks would probably be dragging their feet.
It has been a while since this appeared; I wonder if it picks up steam. Now or never?
There's Wero, a European alternative to VISA and Mastercard.
Is it? Doesn't look like they offer debit/credit cards.
Looks more like a PayPal alternative.
Itโs based on iDEAL, which we use in the Netherlands since 2005. All the Dutch banks are connected to it and when you pay, you approve the payment in your banking app or website, after which itโs immediately deducted from your bank account and the webshop gets an instant payment confirmation. Variations of this are also used peer to peer, for example for splitting the bill or when buying second hand stuff. You send someone a payment request (url) or show a QR and payments arrive instantly on your bank account, without any fees.
So indeed, even though itโs immensely popular and widely used, itโs not a full replacement for physical debit cards and it doesnโt offer credit.
Every country in the EU has some system for direct debit payments.
Italy has Bancomat, Germany has EC/Giro, France has Carte Bleue, Belgium has Bancontact/Mister Cash (still have not figured out whether they're supposed to be different or just different names in Flanders and Wallonia), and so on and so forth.
Does the Netherlands not have such a system?
It used to be that people would use these within their own country, but there would be Maestro for payments around Europe.
MasterCard decided to discontinue Maestro for MasterCard Prepaid which has higher fees.
The Germans whined about it a little and said that Europe should have come up with its own payment systems, but nothing came of it.
By now we are also supposed to have SEPA Instant, that should offer Europe-wide bank transfers. I still have not quite understood why a debit card system can't leverage that directly.
For debit cards weโve always used Maestro for as long as I can remember. Nowadays new debit cards are usually Mastercard or Visa due to Maestro being discontinued, like you mentioned. Back in the days we also had a system called Giro cards, but then Iโm taking about the time when cheques were still a thing.
Thereโs also the option to use direct debits from your bank account, which we use for subscriptions and utilities. This can be approved using iDEAL, same as with one-time payments. This doesnโt involve Maestro, Mastercard, or any card whatsoever. Most Dutch people only use debit cards in a physical stores.
We use iDEAL to pay taxes, the invoice of your house renovation, your Spotify subscription, your utilities, you name it. Of course instant bank transfers are also an option, but thatโs basically the same thing, but with more effort and room for error.
Yup thatโs the current state of it. They say theyโre planning to add in-store and online payment options though
It's a PayPal alternative, but developed in tandem with most European banks. That way, it will at some point also be used as backend for your normal debit and credit card payments, instead of VISA / MasterCard. If I remember correctly.
Cashless payment is fucked. Using a phone to pay with? Sorry, only google wallet or apple pay, and in most cases only visa or mastercard. It's only recently that that Danish "Dankortet" is getting support in those apps. Bit fucking late, but US led companies don't give a fuck.
Samsung have their own wallet app, too. There are also a number of alternatives to Visa and Mastercard, but unfortunately, they are not as widespread or are limited to a particular countries banking system. In Canada, we have Interac, for example.
Yeah, but at least here in DK the banks have to "support" those wallets. And as far as I know, none of them do, it's just Apple or Google. For reference the biggest bank in Denmark, "Danske Bank" also support Garmin Pay, but that's for smartwatch NFC pay. (Also those products aren't for plebeians like myself.)
Don't let the Christians get up in there and dictate what you can and can't buy with it
Yeah, that is what happened to DLSite. It sells Japanese media such as hentai, so Visa & Mastercard put a universal ban on their products, no matter the category. It is a 1st Amendment violation IMO, since they are gatekeeping an entire culture.
I can easily see MasterVisa banning European or Canadian merchants for the sake of a Trump Regime.
we shouldn't allow private tyrants to control us like that
We're so capable, it's crazy we needed to be threatened to realize it.
I really hope that the EU introduces a global payment and banking system that is agnostic. I don't want to be under MasterVisa's thumb, and would prefer to keep the bulk of my money as Euros instead of American Dollars. Problem is, as an American, I can't readily use Euros in my daily life.
Here's hoping the EU can strike up a solution with Blue States, so that I don't need to ask Musk for permission to buy anything.
You could solve half of it by getting a Wise account which comes with both a real USD routing number as well as an European IBAN. You can keep your money as euros and do card payments in USD or any other currency with better rates than a normal European bank account would give you
HOWEVER
The Wise debit card is still a VISA one.
Cash is king
Portugal has it's own network, Multibanco, and I know our central bank is working on a system targeted to the SEPA+ area. We already can send money to each other usong our phone number and our fiscal number.
I'm Portuguese and also lived in other countries in Europe and Multibanco is a vastly superior system to everything else I've seen, but on the ATM side rather than the payments side (everybody seems to have their own payment solution or, like the UK, rely on the likes of Visa and MasterCard) - already back in the 90s in Portuguese ATMs, in addition to withdrawing money, you could check your bank account balance, get a statement with the last transactions on your account and even pay your bills all this well before widespread internet access and online banking: that stuff was way ahead of its time back then.
Right now they've added stuff like touchless mobile payments and transfers, but the rest has caught up with them so you'll find such solutions in most countries plus that whole system is entirely local as it's the product of ages ago (before neoliberalism) the government forcing the banks to get together and create a company - SIBS - under shared ownership of the banks, responsible for setting up and managing a national interbank payment systems.
I wouod even say that the Multibanco system probably helps Portuguese banks maintain market lock-in against external competitors, which does get translated to Portugal having pretty high banking fees compared to the rest of Europe, especially for one of the poorest countries in the EU.
SIBS came up with virtual credit cards since at least 2009 - those are Visa or Mastercard cards, mind you, although that's defined by the debit card that it's associated with (so defined by the bank).
You can pay your bills in Portuguese ATMs, buy tickets, recharge your travel pass, withdraw money without a card, etc... makes most other systems seem like the stoneage.
If only there was an encrypted permissionless way of sending money instantly, it's cryptic nobody hasn't invented a lite coin or moneyro like that.
Get out of here Charlie P
I don't think I will. But say hi to your bank teller for me next time your card is declined (ใเฒ ็เฒ )ใ
...is that supposed to be a comeback of some kind?
I see you're having a hard time keeping up with the convo, we can end it here buddy, don't worry.
Ah that must be the issue: we aren't having a convo. You're a scammer. I called you a scammer. That's it. No convo
fuck YES!
ALSO: fuck plastic bank money, cash is king