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Indiana Jones doesn't "endorse" Nazis, Bethesda assure, just in case you were confused by him repeatedly murdering them
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this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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"Bethesda covers its arse in anticipation of a bunch of terminally online American teenagers who just learnt the word 'nazi' and would use it to describe a fuckin nun if it made them feel a bit morally superior for ten seconds"
I've heard plenty of people try to say WOLFENSTEIN glorifies nazis
I've had one idiot tell me ANY media that paints them as competent or successful is glorifying them. And setting anything in a world where they succeeded and progressed technologically instead of collapsing is basically saying Hitler's world view is valid.
I still don't know how to respond to that beyond "if you think the nazis were incompetent you don't know history, and if you think showing a future where fascism took hold is unrealistic I have some bad news for you"
It's fantasy, and specifically a fantasy in which you get to go on a massive killing spree against some of the worst people in history, how you can somehow pull "this game is making these guys look good" from that, I'm not sure.
And people still wonder why I pick so much on the wishful thinking fallacy... I mean, that's basically it, right? "Nazi are morally bad, I hate them, thus they must be incompetent". And if you correctly highlight that this is fucking stupid, you'll get some kid saying stuff like "I dun understand, why are you defending Nazi?".
You're misunderstanding the argument, but that's just the nature of brief forum exchanges.
Think of it as a continuous depiction of the Nazis as hyper-competent or full of geniuses unintentionally playing into the supremacy narrative, even when Joe Everyman is gunning them down. I don't agree that Wolfenstein is pro-Nazi but it is a factor in public perception that creators need to consider when repeated in a hundred different games or movies.
Even just repeating things like "At least Mussolini made the trains run on time" plays into it, especially when it's a lie, just like the Wunderwaffe programs or the Nazi "miraculous economic recovery" which was just making people work longer hours and deficit spending.
I'm not. We're talking about different things.
Backtrack to Miles O'Brien's comment. They're clearly talking about individual depictions, and my comment focuses on that. To assume that people with shitty worldviews must be necessarily incompetent is wishful thinking.
The reason why the Nazi worldview is invalid has jack shit to do with efficiency or competence, it's as simple as "that worldview oppresses the lives of innocent people into living hells".
In the meantime you're talking about the social impact of continuous, somewhat consistent-ish depictions of the Nazi in media, not individual depictions. What you're saying is valid but another can of worms.
Note that, if people are less eager to play along that fallacy, this sort of argument doesn't roll any more. Suddenly if Merdolini made the trains run on time or not doesn't matter, and can be safely called out as a distraction. Just like the Nazi economic recovery.
If they think that, they may have a problem with what they consider glorified. They may want to avoid recognizing parallels that are far more personal to them.
If they didn't have at least a few competent nazis, they wouldn't have been such a threat; WW2 would be over in a month. I'm sure there were even competent Talibans and North Koreans.
I take your point but I wouldn't class nuns as the ideal opposing example to Nazis, either.
EDIT: And yes, I know I'm doing the thing.
Putting the "God" in Godwin's law