this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023

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[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As someone who nearly killed myself with a gun and was only stopped because I was too depressed to fill out the paperwork to buy one, my life was directly saved by gun control.

Every state purchasing in a store (every FFL) requires you to fill out paperwork [wait times may vary]. There is no mystical stores in some random state that sell guns without forms/paperwork. It's a federal requirement. Even as a CCW in AZ, I still have to fill out a form even though I can take the gun home that same day (I have no wait time).

Private sales in every state doesn't require documentation.

There is no difference here that I'm aware of for ANY state to the two above statements.

The statisical reality is that people like me are still more likely to kill ourselves with guns

Unfortunately, there are no statistics that actually show how many gun defenses are successful each year. So you cannot say this without lying through your teeth. Some sources CLAIM to have this information... but likely don't have the full data set. The CDC used to publish this information until pressured to take it down. They had estimated between 60k and 2.5 million "gun defense" events a year. The CDC will also say that we average <50k gun deaths per year(suicide being about 25k) in the USA. 60k>50k... which make you wrong just from that data alone. Once again the problem is we don't know if "death" was an outcome of the "gun defense". We also don't know what that number really is between the 60k or 2.5mill... or something else. But the fact that with what we don't know you're wrong... and with what we knew you're wrong... You're just wrong... Statistically and logically.

[–] balerion 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To be clear, it wasn't "you have to do literally any paperwork" that stopped me. It was the sheer amount of paperwork and hoops you have to jump through in my state to get a gun.

If anyone is lying here, it's you. Literally just google it.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2763812

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was the sheer amount of paperwork and hoops you have to jump through in my state to get a gun.

FFLs are required to do the same paperwork Form 4473 and the forms required for the following NICS check (or your CCW in states where the CCW includes a background check). Once again... it's federal. How little you know about the process shows your biases though if you're so willing to speak out against it.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2763812

states

However, access to firearms in the home has been associated with an increased risk of death from suicide and homicide among household members.

Which is not your claim of

The statisical reality is that people like me are still more likely to kill ourselves with guns than to be killed by bigots, and moreover, that having a gun on you does not protect you from bigots.

Which insinuates that you're more likely to kill yourself and defend yourself with a gun.

Alright... next one...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

Correct. The goal would be to de-escalate. Make the criminal run away. The goal of owning a gun isn't to kill intruders. It's to level the playing field so that you aren't taken advantage of. This once again doesn't match your statement.

Next one...

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762

Conclusion: Living with a handgun owner is associated with substantially elevated risk for dying by homicide. Women are disproportionately affected.

Does not make any comparison to defensive uses of guns... at all. Actually quite disingenuously... it specific targets cases where cohabitants shoot each other.

Among homicides occurring at home, cohabitants of owners had sevenfold higher rates of being fatally shot by a spouse or intimate partner

Your statement is

The statisical reality is that people like me are still more likely to kill ourselves with guns than to be killed by bigots, and moreover, that having a gun on you does not protect you from bigots.

Statistically this is either dubious at best to and outright lie at worst.
So... Once again... Please address the question I asked. Stop trying to flood me with papers that don't address it. 50k, which is the number that the CDC cites as total gun deaths per year in the USA (Cite1, Cite2, Cite3) is a lower number than 60k-2.5million (cite1 would be the CDC itself..., cite2, cite3. How is is that with these two numbers, that your statistics are right?

I think... and I'm not trying to be mean here... you're uneducated on the matter or you have a personal grudge whether against guns or the group of people who tend to carry them. But your "statistics"... just don't bare out to reality. You cannot simply equate these two things and make the claim you did. There is sufficient studies and evidence out there that show otherwise. You're specifically taking studies that aren't covering your statement and trying to apply them to yours.

[–] balerion 1 points 1 year ago

Before I block you, I am simply going to drop this image from this article. I was mobile earlier, so my sources may not have been the best.

Oh, and this one is just for funsies: You have more success in not losing your property if you use literally any object other than a gun to defend yourself.