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“My Brother Is So Far Gone”: How Male Influencers Turned The Men In These People’s Lives Toxic
(www.buzzfeednews.com)
this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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Men's Liberation
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I do think there is an attack on masculinity that is going unaddressed and this is a huge issue that if that was solved issues like this wouldn't arrise.
If you ever speak about it, it just goes the old "you're a man you have life on easy don't you know how hard it is to be X" or "that's not the way the world is any more you are stuck in the 40's" or " you need to be thinking about X and how men make them feel and you need to do better even though you haven't done anything wrong you're responsible."
Boys and men want some shithousary, they want some aggression and they want to be tough. But they don't get the support in a lot of ways I did even a few years ago.
Guys don't want to be weak and breakdown and cry and talk about their feelings, they want to be part of a group that supports each other and helps each other grow and be tougher. But when guys are wrestling and calling each other cunts or whatever that isn't healthy, they should be asking each other about their emotions and what not. I'm just convinced men aren't built like that and building the world away from the old systems isn't good for men.
They need a group where they can go and relax and shithouse. Things like scouts, full contract sport, boys groups, mens groups in the pub. That does more for my mental health and most guys mental health than any of the stuff being pushed now. What we need to push is society is community and I think men need that more than they need anything else, just look at loneliness levels. Secondly it's probably purpose, being seen as tough and a provider.
That's what men crave and there is such a severe lack of that community that it is taken from twats like Tate because there is no other option.
Stop talking with the voices in your head. It helps a lot.
I'm a man and I'm build like that. How about not making generalizations about like half the population of earth. Some men want do MMA, some do want talk about feelings and some might even want to do both. There is no one size fit them all approach to masculinity. And it was never about, making traditional manly man any less manly. It is about realizing that we are all different and no-one is less human or men because we don't fit in some box.
Holy shit. Nail on the head. To the OP, I hope that's not so harsh you don't hear the message. You are rather ill-informed on what is acceptable human behavior, and what is that old toxic masculinity that us humans are trying to get rid of. You are absolutely fine hanging out with buddies and doing guy stuff. "Clubs" have been on a downward tend since the mid 20th century, and it's not feminism that did that. It's just that people are less and less interested in joining them and committing time. They all struggle with membership (yes, I belong to one).
There's also the possibility that if you don't have guys to hang out with, it might be that your idea of "shithouse" is just being shitty. I've spent plenty of time in locker rooms -and that kind of behavior gets on peoples nerves as you get older. That's not an attack on masculinity.
Congratulations, you did exactly what others have said is the problem: men's problems are dismissed or blamed on the victims. Are you seriously denying that this happens?
How are do you write despite lacking the ability to read? Is there a nest of you guys somewhere next to this sub?
Yeah, you are way down the toxic masculinty trip, that you fail to differentiate what of these things are what people actually want and what they think they want, because it was instilled into them by society.
Usually the people that present this to the outside are emotionally very fragile and break down easily, just not in public. Also your inability to find a community is not the issue of changed expectations, but of your own ability to socialise. And that typically stems from the "old school" training you probably received by your parents and male guardian figures in your life.
That "old school tough" typically involves denying your own emotions and punishing emotions in other people, be it women deemed "hysterical" or men deemed "weak". But nothing is more weaker than that.
Meanwhile "real men" don't need to get into bar fights because they cannot handle the fact, that their coworker isn't into them. They actually face up to their emotions and deal with them constructively.
Sometimes what they want and what society says they want is the same thing.
I didn't say I didn't have a community I said people find it hard. I have had plenty of communities whether it was from clubs or sports or friends or more recently travelling. You're just making incorrect assumptions here.
That's just not true. No one has ever taught me to lash out at anyone. This is the exact issue I'm talking about and if you take nothing else away from what I have said look at this. As soon as someone (me) talks about masculinity being good for some people someone (you) attacks me for it and says it isn't right. A lot of men want to be tough they don't want someone to told their hand. It's not a "oh you messed up hunny, you want to lean on my shoulder and cry. It won't happen again." it's a "you fucked up and let the team down. Smash some cunts in the next tackle like I know you can" then when that happens you get a "that's fucking more like it". Yet somehow that level of support goes to you beat your wife or something as you are going on about. It is exactly the issue I am talking about.
You're just wrong on this.
Traditional male support that a lot of people born traditionally male respond well too. But other people on the outside look down on us and discourage boys from having that support.
Even something as simple as all mens groups are heavily discouraged.
you are argueing against a strawman. Ibam not aware that anyone is demanding men to break down and cry on a shoulder when they fail to do something. Noone is forbidding men from being strong, be it emotionally or physically.
But when you talk about being agressive and "smashinf cunts" that of course means lashing out and attacking people for no proper reason.
In OP's defense I read that is if it were in the context of like a rugby game, and I agree with OP that physical sports one can be a healthy outlet for men, it doesn't have to be bar fighting levels of violence.
yeah but noone is seriously claiming that rugby needs to stop. So hes argueing against complete strawmen
Yes they are though. People say if men keep their emotions bottled up and don't cry or talk about their emotions it's a bad thing. The fact that men express their worries, emotion and support in a different way is the issue because so many people do not like it and try stop it.
I have no idea how you got to attacking people when I was clearly talking about team sport. Obviously punching unsuspecting people is bad but that is horrifically different to what I was saying. Killing people is also bad, but equally that isn't what I said.
People have told me I shouldn't act the way that emotionally supports me. People have told me contact sports should be banned, boys shouldn't rough house, calling your friend a cunt is not acceptable in anyway, being loud and singing in a way that does not disrupts others isn't okay, playing voluntary games like drinking or slapping each other is unacceptable. People have told me that team sport, and men only environment, is negative for society because I believe it allows men to act in a way that is natural to them, yet some people don't like it.
Boys and men should be supported in doing things that help them. Wether it's making friendship groups where you can call your friends cunts or where they will look out for you when needed.
Slap a "some" on there. Not everyone is the same
Fair enough. I left it as a low key implication of "most"