Communism, like Capitalism, should be highly modified to fit a country's issues. Classical Communism as by Marx and Engels is almost impossible to implement thanks to human nature.
this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2023
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You do realize that capitalism has only existed for a tiny fraction of human existence. The utter lack of critical thinking required to believe that it's human nature is simply astonishing.
Human nature is way too selfish, narcissistic, and greedy for communism and it's other branches to work.
You've got this completely backwards I'm afraid. If humans are indeed selfish, narcissistic, and greedy by nature then it's capitalism and not socialism that's incompatible with humans. We need systems that inhibit negative tendencies and encourage positive ones instead of the opposite. Capitalism is like inviting an alcoholic to a happy hour. We also have plenty of evidence that communism does in fact work, and consistently produces superior results to capitalism.
Not meaning to sound like an ass, but can you give examples of Communist countries that have had success in the long run? North Korea and South Korea were neck-to-neck in the 60s and 70s, since the SU's collapse things haven't been well for NK. China and Vietnam ironically had started to adopt market-like policies in the 80s and 90s. Cuba has been in a flux since the Soviet Union fell.
But Humans are selfish to the core, Capitalism has always been flawed without human greed, however Communism and it's derivatives have been suffering because of human nature being selfish and rotten, See Stalinism and Juche
Cuba, China, and Vietnam are all great examples to study. DPRK is doing well given that it's completely blockaded by the global empire. Meanwhile, US has poured untold billions into propping SK up. Your argument completely ignores the fact that every communist country has to content with the aggression from the most powerful global empire to ever exist. It's not like these countries are allowed to develop peacefully. Soviet Union provided a counterbalance and protected these countries from aggression by the US. Once it dissolved US redoubled its efforts to destroy these countries. If anything, the very fact that they are still around and thriving shows how resilient communism.
Meanwhile, adopting capitalist policies doesn't make a country capitalist any more than adopting some social services makes a country communist. What makes a country communist or capitalist is determined by which class holds power.
I would like to know why you think the U.S is a hostile Empire. I mean you can give our past examples of fierce anti-Communism as proof. But in the modern day, many of these communist nations inflict wounds on themselves via oppressing their own peoples, causing the UN to take action. The U.S would love to work and better relations with the 5 Communist countries of today, however it is them that are the problem, not us.
Juche and Stalinism are proven to be perverted from their missions of Communistic ideals and were made by corrupt people who had zero care for their own population.
I would like to know why you think the U.S is a hostile Empire.
Because of the long and well documented history of atrocities that US has been committing against communist and socialist countries for around a century now. Here are a couple of books you should read if you want to understand the nature of the empire
- https://ia800309.us.archive.org/26/items/fp_Killing_Hope-US_Military_and_CIA_Interventions_Since_WWII-William_Blum/Killing_Hope-US_Military_and_CIA_Interventions_Since_WWII-William_Blum.pdf
- http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=9A5EF5FCA74315C6FCDC1A545E8E3C4B
But in the modern day, many of these communist nations inflict wounds on themselves via oppressing their own peoples, causing the UN to take action.
In the modern day US is blockading Cuba, Venezuela, and DPRK. In fact, US has just recently tried to run a coup in Venezuela. US has also just recently done a coup in Peru against a mildly leftist government. The regime US is backing there is currently murdering people protesting against it.
The U.S would love to work and better relations with the 5 Communist countries of today, however it is them that are the problem, not us.
This statement is not based in reality.
Juche and Stalinism are proven to be perverted from their missions of Communistic ideals and were made by corrupt people who had zero care for their own population.
You have no clue regarding the subject you're attempting to debate. Here are some facts you might want to consider before you regurgitate more nonsense. First, let's take a look at a few studies that clearly show how nonsensical your claims are:
Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.507.8966&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2672986?seq=1
A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/pdf/amjph00269-0055.pdf
This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2430906/
Next, let's just look at how do people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism
Well... I rest my case against you. But it doesn't change my skepticism and distrust towards Communism. I don't have many sources, but many have said over here that the economic institution is a true nightmare and hundreds are oppressed.
The fact that North Korea prevents its people from leaving, and China imprisoning any who dare to speak their own opinion. Lest we forget what's going on in Venezuela thanks to Communism.
I grew up in USSR, but do tell me more about what life under communism is actually like.
There's just no way you, a person who grew up in a country such as that, can view Communism in such light.
You are a poster child for the power of brainwashing of western propaganda. Go back up in the thread an READ what opinion polls from people who lived in former Soviet countries say. Majority of them preferred communism. Your regime lies to you, and you're too thick to even consider the possibility evidently.
Are you saying that Russia, China and it's communist friends haven't brainwashed you with eastern propaganda? How can someone that was born and lived in the SU have such positive things to say about Communism? Nostalgia has clouded you.
What do you mean I'm too thick?
No, I'm telling you that my lived experience clearly shows which system actually works better. The fact that you think you know better what life was like in SU than somebody who actually lived there really says everything I need to know about you. On top of that, I've linked numerous scientific studies for you showing that it's not just my anecdotal experience.
What do you mean I’m too thick?
Exactly what I said, maybe work on your English comprehension?
Just because Eastern Europe doesn't know how to utilize capitalism correctly and their politicians lime to treat themselves like emperors and dictators. Doesn't mean that Capitalism is crap. Also nostalgic people like you are the reason tyrants & terrorists like Putin, Xi, Lukashenko, and Orban are in power.
Let's not begin to talk about how many perished under the glorious policies of Communism and the environmental disasters and degradation that occured.... Chernobyl Nuclear Reactor No. 4 ring any bells?
Life in US is getting worse and worse for vast majority of people. A staggering 63% of people in US today have no saving and live paycheck to paycheck. Around 30 million people are food insecure. There are literal tent cities all over the country. Poverty keeps rising while the wealth continues to be concentrated with a handful of oligarchs. That's the reality of capitalism everywhere.
Meanwhile, quality of life in China continues to steadily improve and the government is actively working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:
90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it's the most populous country on the planet. Social mobility in China is far higher than in US.
Finally, capitalist policies kill millions of people each an every year
- http://guerrillaontologies.com/2014/05/attempting-the-impossible-calculating-capitalisms-death-toll/
- https://www.rawstory.com/2012/05/nearly-5-million-children-died-of-preventable-diseases-worldwide-in-2010/
- http://poverty.com/
You continue to expose yourself here as a profoundly ignorant individual. I can't wait to see what inanity you come up with next here.
You sure you're not talking about life in Russia and Belarus post-1991? You literally explained life outside of St. Petersburg, Volgograd, Moscow, and Kaliningrad. But okay....
I love how you conveniently left out the lives that perished during China's Great Leap Forward and their immediate adoption of liberal market policies as soon as Mao died. But yeah ignorantly explain to me and leave out the facts of the totalitarian policies and extremely poor working conditions of the "zero-poverty" policies.
It's absolutely hilarious that you hold strong opinions on the topic regarding which you continue to demonstrate such stunning ignorance. You keep on wallowing in your dogma kiddo.
You too. It's wild that you're defending the institution that brought misery to a lot of people.
I'm defending an institution that has improved the lives of more people than any other system ever tried. Only an utter ignoramus such as yourself could argue otherwise while defending one of the most heinous systems known to man. You're like a poster child for the American stereotype.
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highly modified to fit a country’s issues
Not "highly" but Marxism Leninism is the only version which had that build in, hence we have Socialism with Chinese Characterstics or Juche which are still both ML.
Classical Communism as by Marx and Engels is almost impossible to implement thanks to human nature.
You already responded to my main question, like someone who never read anything except Manifesto or probably not even manifesto, else you would know that Marx and Engels never given a ready blueprint for communism, they left that to the people who would implement it, because they weren't dogmatics unlike the bunch of proudhons, lassales etc. and that even during the Marx life his political stance was being refined by revolutionary events - the biggest one would be formulation of the dictatorship of the proletariat doctrine after Paris Commune.
Would you mind giving just a quick explanation of what "classical communism" is?
Its a term I made up. The one explained in the Communist Manifesto, the true Marxist interpretation, preluding the heavily modified one and more popular Marxist-Leninism, it speaks of a society in which classes do not exist, and the workers truly have control of their society without Government presence.
How about not ending capitalism, but trying as hard as possible to anticipate and balance the negative effects of wealth concentration with the overall beneficial effects of competative innovation?
Socialism sounds good to me...
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