this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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The poll is over, and the result is clear: (berlin.social)
submitted 2 weeks ago by mina@berlin.social to c/firefox@lemmy.ml
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The poll is over, and the result is clear:

#FireFox users have very little interest for Chatbot integration into their browser.

I am very much aware that the people, who voted in this poll are hardly a representative sample, but more than 2.4K people is a better size than many "professional" opinion polls.

@mozilla & @firefox should take people, who actually care about their #browser choice, seriously.

I still seriously believe that #Mozilla's fate matters,

https://berlin.social/@mina/113102817500429735

1/3

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[–] superkret@feddit.org 108 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If I want to use a chatbot, I'll access a website that provides one.
My browser is supposed to be a program that lets me access the internet, and nothing else.

[–] cmgvd3lw@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 weeks ago

Couldn't be more accurate.

[–] KarnaSubarna@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

What Firefox provides here:

A connector to LLM providers.
Accelerators (context menu options).

From a coding perspective, this should ideally be a very lightweight functionality.

This feature is very analogous to options to add a search engine, and also to provide accelerators via context menu.

While it can be done via third-party or Official Mozilla add-ons, but (to me) it still makes sense to have it part of the product.

[–] el_abuelo@programming.dev 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Asking mastodon users whether they'd choose AI over Privacy is like asking Elon Musk if he'd rather end poverty or buy another mega yacht.

[–] JameUwU@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

As the "tech guy" who my family turns to for advice, I do not have a single family member other than my younger brother who has any interest in AI-assistance. My brother wants it to cheat in school.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

As the tech guy

My parents really like it - they like that they can say what they want to say and get it formatted for an email

[–] AntEater@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I wish Mozilla would just strip all the extraneous junk from Firefox aside from what is truly necessary for web browsing. No crypto, no Pocket, no chatbot integration, nothing AI related, etc. Any and all additional features should be implemented via optional plugins. They could rename the project something like Phoenix or Firebird or something like that.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I bet they wouldn't be so dependent on that google money if they stopped trying to chase every tech trend that pops up regardless of interest or popularity.

My perception of Firefox users is that most of us use Firefox for a reason, and thats usually some variation of moving away from big tech bullshit. I COULD be wrong but I certainly dont think so lol.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Where would the money come from then? donations? Or do you mean they should shrink, fire people and downscale.

I think it's too late for them to switch direction, not without a lot of people getting laid off. Though maybe that will ultimately happen if they finally end up bankrupt.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Or do you mean they should shrink, fire people, and downscale

I reckon I do. Google is like 80% of their funding or some shit, which hinders other search products while affecting user experience in other ways as well due to their influence. If they reined in the scope of their product, they could work on a lower budget which might allow them to work towards breaking free of that oversight. As I mentioned, I don't think most Firefox users want half this crap they're working on anyway, but they're caught in the tech "infinite growth" loop where they ""have"" to crank out bs features or else be considered irrelevant.

Just make a solid browser, work in solid mod support so I can make it my own, and maintain it. I have my own tools to use instead of pocket and whatever else, I don't need Mozilla to do that.

In terms of workers being let go, if they scale back they can at least let people go in a respectful manner instead of them just showing up to a sign on the door lol.

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

My worry is that the other 20% might actually come from other forms of partnerships and integrations not unlike what they probably had in mind with this, and that dropping Google might actually make them more dependent on seeking this kind of initiatives, not less.

I don't know how many people you actually need to maintain a browser. But if it's actually possible to do it without any kind of money from any of those sources in a way that can be sustained, then it would make more sense to make a fork (or alternative, like Ladybird) and just use that.

Like I said, I think it's too late for Mozilla to shift course, I don't expect they'll ever do that. At least not until they are forced by a competing project if it happens to become successful (or a similar huge wake up call that leaves them no alternative).

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Is there crypto stuff in Firefox? Also I like the Pocket integration...

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

Not the currency

There is a crypto method you can call for random number generation

[–] mina@berlin.social 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

as being a prominent and established way of accessing the internet without using a product owned by one of three three tech giants.

No niche browser can play the same role.

To me, hopping onto a running train doesn't seem to be the way to go when it comes to creating and keeping trust:

People, who think that cars are a terrible way of getting people around in cities, don't want another Tesla, they want a good bike.

Here we have a problem, common to many non-profits:

2/3

@mozilla @firefox

[–] mina@berlin.social 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Fake Professionalism!

I don't believe that CEOs, who demand a 7 digit salary, have the ability to understand the soul and heart of a collective of people (in the case of many #FOSS projects: some of the world's most skilled and talented programmers), who donate lots of their time and energy for a project they believe in, and hence lack the credibility and skills necessary for making them thrive in the long term.

Firefox's ever falling market share proves that.

3/3

#RFC

@mozilla @firefox

[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

why can't we just have a fast, reliable browser with a clean UI that is fairly customizable with really solid extension support?

Extensions/plugins were supposed to provide the framework if users wanted a bunch of bells and whistles.

and I refuse to believe that a company with the resources of Mozilla cannot do that.

Minecraft is basically that in game form. A powerful voxel engine that has a massive amount of support for mods and plugins.

[–] mina@berlin.social 5 points 2 weeks ago

@Lettuceeatlettuce

I guess, that is what most people want.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Minetest is probably a better comparison

[–] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

Eh, fair point. Minecraft early on was more like what I was describing. For years now the devs have added a ton of content to the base game.

Still, most people I know play with at least a few mods, even if it's just texture packs and some QoL mods for better UI/UX.

[–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

OT but: How does this Mastodon/Lemmy integration even work? OP seems to be posting on Mastodon but we are commenting on Lemmy which makes everything look confusing.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago

I gave up trying to understand long ago

[–] pipariturbiini@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Both services use the ActivityPub protocol, so to put it very simply the data format used by both services is the same, they just render it differently on your screen. Then they are pushing/pulling the data for posts and comments from other instances as users request it, e.g. by viewing this lemmy instance through Mastodon.

[–] imnotfromkaliningrad@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago

please for the love of god almighty dont ad a chatbot or any other kind of gipity! even if one disregards all the concerns about privacy, software bloat and energy usage (climate change), one has to remember the purpose of firefox, or any other browser for that matter: loading websites. nothing more nothing less.

[–] tomtrottel@mastodontech.de 9 points 2 weeks ago

@mina @mozilla @firefox the absolut las thing I need in Firefox is a freaking Chatbot :) :) :) :)

[–] Eiri@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Okay someone has to say it.

The second F in Firefox is NOT capitalized.

[–] mina@berlin.social 4 points 2 weeks ago

@Eiri

Oh fuck!

I'm way too used to CaMelCase, it seems.

[–] threeduck@aussie.zone 2 points 2 weeks ago

I'm more privy to "_fireFox" when declaring my browser.

[–] ColdWater@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 weeks ago

I can't wait for other browser engine to caught up with Firefox

[–] jangdonggun@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Can this poll be considered official ? I clicked the link and it looks like a Twitter poll or something.

[–] mina@berlin.social 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

@jangdonggun

Of course, it's not official.

I made this poll, as just a normal Fedi user.

It got more attention than I had anticipated, though.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This post is confusing because I recently did take an official Firefox poll involving AI features (and others).

[–] mina@berlin.social 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

@JackbyDev

I'm sorry.

It was certainly never my intention to impose myself like an official channel or something like that.

I still welcome a debate here.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago

I didn't think you were! You're fine lol. No apology necessary. ❤️

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

I think it can be useful for some users but hardly the majority.

You can select text now in Firefox and ask it to make a summary or to explain it in simpler words. Then it generates a query to chatgpt in the sidebar who answers it.

So for some use cases I think it's nice. Even better if you could make it do research and save us time. Like "check the top tech sites for reviews of this phone model and give me a summary of it's major flaws".

Chat gpt can do that but it's not really integrated into the Firefox experience. If you could select a phone name and have a one click option to "give me top flaws and pros of this model according to top reviewers", that could save a lot of time.

I think it's just about packaging this functionality better. I don't think it should be in a sidebar. It should just be in a new tab with lots of options to continue the research in different ways.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

That's not private in the least. If anything add optional support for ollama

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They have a choice of different models in the Nightly version of Firefox. So I think we are getting there. Maybe even an option to run our own self hosted models.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Welp, Firefox was the last option. I guess I'll just stick to Librewolf

[–] Vincent@feddit.nl 1 points 2 weeks ago

For the use cases you describe actually sound right on the mark? If you're viewing a page and you want something summarised on there, it would be nice to not have to leave that page, but to stay in its context, for example. If you're looking at the specs of a particular phone, ditto.

(I don't expect I'll use this feature myself, but if I did, it sounds like I'd use it in that way. Luckily, I can just choose not to use it without any downsides.)

[–] flux@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

Then there are the cases where you want the LLM to actually interact with the page, using the current web page state and your credentials.

For example, one might want to tell it to uncheck all the "opt in" checkboxes in the page.. And express this task in plain English language.

Many useful interactive agent tasks could be achieved with this. The chatbot would be merely the first step.