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“Chronic cannabis use makes you stupid, to put it bluntly, and can also cause psychosis,” Thomas Fischbach, president of a German federation of doctors for children and adolescents (BVKJ), told the Die Welt newspaper.
Meanwhile, at Oktoberfest...
The drunken debauchery often leads to fights, aggressive behavior, and bierleichen — so-called "beer corpses," which is what locals call the many passed out drunks lying on the hill behind the tents.
Cannabis bad doesn't mean alcohol good
No, but here he is trotting out the line about Schizophrenia, which is a real risk, but is dwarfed in its societal impact by the downsides of alcohol. I don't expect he's said anything at all publicly about the impacts of that though, which would suggest that he's the talking head that the German press always contact for a negative comment about cannabis every time it hits the news. Especially as this is reported by Die Welt which is an Axel Springer publication.
The link between cannabis and schizophrenia is also supper dubious at best.
Its for the most part based on statistics that a large number of people who go to the ER and are there diagnosed with psychosis have used cannabis.
Schizophrenia is a genetic condition characterized by frequent psychosis. And a significant number of this group experiments with cannabis before onset of schizophrenic symptoms, which often only arise in late puberty/ young-adult age.
There are theories that cannabis may trigger schizophrenia in people that have the genetic sensibility to it. Assuming it would otherwise have stayed dorment (for longer)
But 3 pieces of information are ignored.
First people diagnosed with schizophrenia that did not use cannabis before onset of symptoms share the exact same statistically tendency to start using cannabis later in life as the group that did before, leading to theories of self medication and there is proof of anti-psychotic properties of some cannabinoids.
20% of the general population smokes (nicotine), 80% of the schizophrenic population smokes, its such a well known fact that its a common movie trope. Yet not a single theory about how nicotine effects psychosis exist. Because remember only rare people with a genetic sensibility can develop psychosis and psychotic paranoia is a fear tactic
Psychosis and schizophrenia are not well understood in general, there part of the neurodivergent spectrum which is a modern idea in its scientific infancy, More and more we do understand that the main driver of psychosis (and every person can be pushed into experiencing a psychosis) is extreme levels stress.
I know some other things extreme is related with:
addiction to substance abuse of any kind, every time you crave = stress
the troubles a (young) person may have that leads to them frequently using drugs to begin with.
The statistics do make sense but relation simply isn’t causation and its shameful that politicians can just misinterpret science like this.
Yes, I suppose what I ought to have said is that for people with an already elevated risk of developing schizophrenia cannabis could be the trigger. Thank you for this well written summary though.
Funnily (well, not really, but what can we do but laugh), the other cited source, businesses insider, is also an Axel Springer publication. As is Politico, Morning Brew, and some other stuff.
So they aren't just a German problem anymore, they're now everyone's problem.
Like we do any better without Springer in the Anglosphere. If it's not Murdoch metastasising everywhere it's one of the Bannon/Koch Foundation appendages.
Yeah. I've gotten so tired of checking all the sources in algorithmic news feeds that I went back to an rss feed of news agencies, and trusted papers. Media landscape kinda sucks.
okay but the statement he made fits into a societal context such that the overall message being sent by a group of people that have Oktoberfest but make cannabis illegal is absolutely "cannabis bad, alcohol good".
Of course the counter argument to legalisation was published in "Die Welt", the right leaning newspaper from the Springer media group. The group which also publishes the Bild Zeitung which plays a big role in the rise of the far right in Germany and has a history of reckless opinion journalism which even lead to the shooting of a member of the student uprising in the past (Rudy Dutschke if you want to look it up). Fuck everything Springer.
I read the translation of Stefan Aust's book on the Baader-Meinhof and he covers the Rudy Dutschke shooting and also the bit where a Springer editorial praised Savak for beating up students protesting the Shah's visit to Germany. Called them something like 'Jubilant Iranians' if I recall correctly.
At least it takes away one reason for undercover German police to annoy foreigners with their "random" drug tests
First time I hear that, happend to you?
Hahaha happens to many people who have brown skin or look like a punk or hippie in the eyes of some cop.
My dad used to wear a black leather vest and long hair. He was searched uncountable times.
Wait, what now? Do they walk around making tourists piss in cups if they look like they smoked weed?
They make you empty your pockets and pat you down.
They look like gangsters claiming to be police, don't even show a badge until you ask for it, they want all your stuff, like your wallet, to search through it.
Good ol' stop and frisk. It doesn't prevent crime and it let's bastard cops be bastards
German city in Abril
Is this real legalization like in Canada, or fake legalization like most other places?
If a tourist can't buy it from a store, fly to a different city/state domestically with it, and then smoke it at a designated airport smoking area outside the terminal... I struggle to see that as full 'legalization'.
If you are prohibited from doing all those things, it just seems like a different version of prohibition. Step in the right direction though, sure.
The issues here are largely with the EU which stops it from being sold in stores. For now, possession is legalised and you can have all previous arrests made because you were carrying up to 25g permanently removed from your record. It also legal to grow at home.
In this sense, it is legal for personal use but not for commercial use. To get access to weed, they will be rolling out "cannabis social clubs" in summer in which you need to be a member to be allowed to buy weed. These clubs are not allowed to make a profit. There is a plan to later do some tests with commercial usage but its not clear where that is on the roadmap.
It will be interesting to see if this will have any effects on the EU. I can imagine if more countries want to support the legalization that some hurdles can be removed there.
Would be cool if they said fuck you to the EU.
People kept worrying about Canada breaking a UN rule but Canada said fuck it and did it anyway.
Would be cool if they said fuck you to the EU.
The British did that and look where it got them
Canada didn't leave the UN.
The UN and EU are somewhat different organisations.
This is true. What I'm saying is I respect the willingness to 'do it anyway' attitude.
I'll agree on that. The Germans, being German already did a very big step, tbh
Considering the position Germany has in the EU, this is very unlikely
Baby steps!
Lol this article describes the law very poorly. From a club you can get up to 25 grams a day, for up to a maximum of 50 a month.
Thats nonsense. 25g is the general limit of what you are allowed to have on your person outside of your home starting april. 50g is what you can have while at home. So basically 25g to carry around + 25g stored somewhere at home.
The whole thing with the cannabis growing clubs is something coming later this year. These will mostly be about getting seeds, saplings and advice.
That's still quite a lot. I thought less tbh, at least on your person.
Its more than you will ever need yes. You arent allowed to sell or gift it to anyone but 25g is insane for self use so they basically acknowledge that people will ilegally distribute it, but just wont care if u dont let urself be caught in the act.
Yes, what you're saying doesn't negate what I'm saying, and viceversa 😅
I'm just saying the article makes it look like you'll be able to get 25 grams a day with no further restriction, and that's not true. That among other issues with the article.
Oh you are right, sorry for that. I didnt know the monthly distribution limits were a thing for the clubs and thought the article writers just hallucinated that.
FAQ, in german only sadly but translating is ez nowadays i guess https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/themen/cannabis/faq-cannabisgesetz
The law is slightly nonsensical, in particular regarding amounts and such. It's giving written by someone who's never seen a weed
Are edibles a thing in Germany or just flower? I can’t smoke but Im really good at eating gummy bears. Haribo needs to corner this market.
They're a thing as long as you make them. There's not gonna be commercial cannabis
Ok. I think I’m still ok with that. I think I read the legal limit for growing your own was kinda high. Here in Canada it’s only 4 plants.
It's only 3 plants in Germany, but you are not allowed to have more than 50g in your home. Which is a bit difficult to control and achieve, but we take what we get.
I’m so sorry the EU is so far behind Canada but I find it hilarious this is the only metric where we’re ahead. If they legalize it the way it is here, and if I can get by B1 at least, I’ll be applying to move there instantly
I honestly don't think legalising is the best path looking at SF, California reporting after harm reduction campaign. Maybe empathetic rehabilitation.
If you have underlying issues with anxiety and paranoia, adding marijuana to the mix exacerbates these issues greatly and becomes a poor crutch for dealing with them. I've seen friends and family who smoked 2-3x weekly for a few years develop eyebrow-raising mental problems. So I tend to agree.
Personal anecdote, N=4.
(Yeah of course, alcohol is just as bad, or worse in extreme cases, but people can usually sense the damage being done to them by it afterwards. Pot's effects are internal. It's hard to reflect until it's too late.)