this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 11 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

(This is a lie internet lefties tell each other)

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 28 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago

While it isn't what they mean, I would say both parties are different flavors of far-right. Both are genocidal imperial warmongers that promulgate oppression of the marginalized in support of neoliberal capitalism. One does it openly while the other plays a game of taking credit for social changes it opposed and occasionally throwing a bone or two to those constituencies even while materially screwing them over in all other ways. And it will throw them under the bus the moment they can get away with it.

Really, they are part of the same team and they fight those opposed to them far harder than they fight each other. Good cop/bad cop for the same precinct.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

That Democrats would be considered right-of-center in other countries. They're clearly a center-left party.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Center-left? In what way? They are genocidal imperialists, they aren't anticapitalist in any form.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They want to use the power of government to reduce the harms of capitalism, via minimum wages, social safety nets, child tax credit, subsidizing more environmentally friendly energy production and electric cars.

No they are not as far left as you and the people you talk to online, I didn't say that. You are allowed to want different policies. You're just incorrect to call them right wing.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They want to use the power of government to reduce the harms of capitalism, via minimum wages, social safety nets, child tax credit, subsidizing more environmentally friendly energy production and electric cars.

  1. No they don't, lol

  2. That isn't "center-left," that's center-right.

No they are not as far left as you and the people you talk to online, I didn't say that. You are allowed to want different policies. You're just incorrect to call them right wing.

Leftism starts at anti-Capitalism.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Ok I don't expect you to see it but this is exactly why I said it's a lie that online lefties tell themselves. Globally, in real life politics, yes you absolutely can be center-left without demanding the overthrow of Capitalism.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What do you think leftism even is? An arbitrary vibe? Globally, Marxism-Leninism guides one of the most populous countries in the planet.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Being left of center is not solely defined by being Marxist, and one country, even if it actually was Marxist and not 3 Capitalisms in a trenchcoat, would not define the standard of what constitutes "left" in the world.

I'm not saying Marxism isn't Left. I'm saying it's not literally the only thing that IS Left.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Being left of center is not solely defined by being Marxist, and one country, even if it actually was Marxist and not 3 Capitalisms in a trenchcoat, would not define the standard of what constitutes "left" in the world.

Left of center is anticapitalist, be it Anarchist, Syndicalist, or Marxist. I also think it's funny when you out yourself as having no clue what Marxism even is if you think the PRC is "3 Capitalisms in a trenchcoat," read Socialism Developed China, Not Capitalism.

I'm not saying Marxism isn't Left. I'm saying it's not literally the only thing that IS Left.

Neither did I. I just also said Liberalism isn't left.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The metric you are using is not the metric the actual real world uses for center left. You are bringing your internet lefty definitions and declaring that I'm wrong to say only internet lefties would use them. Major parties in the middle of the political spectrum are not typically pushing for the overthrow of Capitalism.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I am using the metrics the actual real world uses, not wherever you live's Overton Window.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You just aren't, but I don't know where the "no U" is going to get us.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They’re clearly a center-left party.

by what measure?

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Seeking social justice through redistributive social and economic policies of government.

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

the extent and effort at which they create and enforce those policies is the measure of left or right in this country; not the existence of those policies because both republican and democrats say that they want those things; but when you investigate beyond the lip service you find that conservatives will give token-at-best support for the policies while leftists will support it with full vigor.

tldr: the democrats very tepid support for these things is what makes them center-right; because the party that calls itself conservative takes pride in doing this, while most democrats do it too and hope you don't notice.

longer: democrats only push for re-distributive policies (if at all) once it becomes popular and they're forced to respond; not because democrats are progressive. see biden's decades long anti-gay crusade that suddenly stopped once he needed the votes and his expansion upon trumps draconian anti-immigration policies; or clinton's establishment of anti-gay service and anti-gay marriage; and then see kamala backtrack on liberal positions like pre-k; community college, childcare, medicare expansion, etc. only the democrats very weakly seek social or economic policies of government and; for the most part; behave like republicans when it's time to put their money where their mouth is; that's why they're center-right

it sounds like you're judging these books by their cover without reading any of the material. we're on social media so it's par for the course; but your takes are going to be divorced from reality if you don't bother to go further than shallow understanding.

[–] BallsandBayonets@lemmings.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

Actions speak louder than words, though even their words aren't saying much these days.

[–] redwattlebird@lemmings.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Well, from where you're standing, everyone's a leftie.