What a fucking cuck
this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2023
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smells like scab
I don't really understand reddit's angle here... Why would they provide zero cost API access to an app, as long as the developer of the app isn't making a profit? Are they trying to act like that was the issue they had with these third party apps? That they e profitable?
How does it make sense for them to allow an app for that reason?
That's what Narwhal dev had publicly offered previously, there's no firm confirmation that's actually the deal and I'd be a little surprised if it was.
I think Reddit chose to give them a sweetheart deal because they're the worst competitor app, the dev had been least publicly critical of the API changes, and Reddit wants the PR value of an example case "proving" their API changes weren't maliciously anticompetitive towards third-party apps.
The fact that Narwhal has struck a deal now allows Reddit Inc to say "see! we do work with third party apps; it's not that we're bad, it's that RIF and Apollo are big meanies who won't cooperate!"
If "cooperating" means getting bent over and shafted with a footlong dildo covered in rusty razor blades than I don't blame them one bit.
Indirectly, that was some of my point.
It looks strongly like one of two things has happened - either Narwhal took the knee and has accepted absolutely abysmal terms in order to remain in existence, or Reddit has offered them a better deal in private to keep them afloat - solely to use them as a PR example case.
The only thing that seems unlikely is that they're working under strict terms of the published agreement, otherwise IMO costs to users are functionally unfeasible.
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From the infamous AMA: We’ll continue to be profit-driven until profits arrive. Unlike some of the 3P apps, we are not profitable.
To me it sounds that he is envious that 3rd party apps were profitable and Reddit isn't.
Maybe they shouldve tried to make their app better.
LOL I thought the same thing. "Have they considered... not sucking?"
They could easily be profitable if they weren’t spending cash doing stupid shit to try and pump up their ‘value’.
They've been trying this entire time to reframe the argument into the app developers being the bad apples.
By getting one scab to exist, they can work at that angle now better than they could before.
Because Huffman is a jealous piece of shit that can't run a fucking business so anyone that is actually capable of making a business profitable makes him feel super fucking cucked. So cucked, in fact, that I cannot think of another term to describe how that brainlet cousinfucker feels and I fucking hate that term because everyone that uses it is a racist cunt. Then again, so is Huffman so there you go.
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So it's basically you pay to Reddit yet without the perks of Reddit premium. You pay just to use 3rd party app.
Don't forget that the API won't provide access to any NSFW sub. (There's a lot of reasons a sub might have NSFW posts besides just pr0n.) So Reddit literally expects people to pay for less content. It's absolutely bananas...
Good lord I don't think I've seen "pr0n" in like a decade.
d00dz @ 1337 h4x0r :)
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yeah. the vaping subs were NSFW. as were some of the tattoo subs.
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I noticed Narwhal was being enshitified last month with obtrusive ads, so long fucker
Jesus.....why would he even bother adjusting the business model if part of the agreement was he makes zero money??....Am I missing understanding something? Seems like a waste of time on developers part...
IIUC Narwhal 1 will be free but will drop its ads in return for being free (so a non-commercial app). Rather than a special deal I figure that this passed under the same rule that other noncommercial apps like RedReader did.
Narwhal 2 will charge a subscription to cover the API fees, including top up fees if you go over some limit, suggesting this is the normal reddit API pricing. I think developers of like Apollo couldn't do this because they had preexisting annual subscriptions. I guess Narwhal didn't have anything like this.
I guess I thought the whole issue was even if the app was not commercial, in order for users to actually make it work they need to use reddit API and that's unsustainable since it cost money regardless. Maybe that's where my misunderstanding stems from. I'm not the most tech savvy with all this API stuff.
Your understanding is correct, but reddit did announce exemptions for noncommercial apps and accessibility apps (without defining the latter term). IIUC reddit said something along the lines of "we shouldn't be lunprofitable while third party apps are profitable."
IIUC reddit said something along the lines of "we shouldn't be unprofitable while third party apps are profitable."
They did, ignoring the fact that the scales are completely different and the fact that the 3PAs helped mods and engaged, contributing members provide content and services that Reddit didn't have to pay for, thereby mitigating or maybe even completely counterbalancing the costs of supporting them.
Agreed. I just tried to state what they said - in my defense i never said that what they said made sense because as you just said it doesn't really make sense.
I don't think they said noncommercial and accessibility apps but rather noncommercial accessibility apps
Ah possible. Maybe Narwhal 1 was still able to get an exemption under this rule (because reddit never defined what an accessibility app was) and is just keeping mum about or downplaying the accessibility angle.
without defining the latter term
Which is why many of us rolled our eyes and ignored the statement as usual lol
Yup. Count myself as one of the eye rollers.
Thank you! Finally getting a complete understanding. Appreciate the info!
It seems like there’s going to be a super premium tier for power users to cover that cost
including top up fees if you go over some limit
top up fees for some forum? lol
I'm sorry, you're out of upvotes. Would you like to purchase 100 more for $1.99?
There were so many ways they could have transitioned to a paid API successfully and they seemed to do the complete opposite at every turn.
Yeah it seems crazy, I'm pretty interested to see how many people will pay for it.
Agreed. Damn sure I won't be one of them lol. Never going back.
I still have Narwhal installed on my phone. This makes me want to delete it.
Thus, in the end, the narwhal did indeed bacon at midnight.
Marketing dollars! Only reason they did this is so they can say “hey look! We still have 3rd party apps!”
Hold up. So he’s allowed to keep a 3rd party app if only Reddit can profit from it? That can’t be right. Why would anyone agree to do that.
Is this a PR damage control by the Snoo Platform, Inc?
So they can say "Look, we still care about 3PA"
Once upon a time (a little over a month ago? Pretty wild to think about) I might have paid to continue to use my 3rd party app of choice (Relay). But now? Not a chance.
realizing I hadn't yet, I actually paid for the third party app that I was using - RIF -after I found out that they were closing the doors.
I don't plan on going back since I just can't condone how Reddit management handled the whole issue, but there is one thing I wonder why it is not a possible solution for 3rd party apps:
Wouldn't it be possible to ask the userbase to just get the API key themselves?
If every user of a 3rd party app has their own API key, they won't have to pay anything won't they, since it will be hard to reach the free tier limit.
And even if a user does reach the limit he can get a couple thousands API calls for just a small number of cents.
Reddit will be still getting the same number of API calls, but it won't be the responsibility of the 3rdparty dev but on each user if the limit is reached
That would be against the terms of service for using the API and a surefire way to get your app removed from whatever storefront you have it listed on as soon as Reddit complains.
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API access has an approval process, and reddit has already been clear they will not just allow users to get their own API keys.
I'm deeply grateful to this man, with this move he just lowered the average global intelligence enough for me to finally be considered above average.
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