this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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[–] halfempty@kbin.social 106 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Why must every faction of Progressives attack each other. Bernie Sanders is the most solid progressive I know of, but Code Pink wants to attack him because his Ukraine support isn't anti-war? I'm anti war. In particular I'm anti the war that Russia started by invading Ukraine. Anti war doesn't mean just letting the bad guy do whatever they want. If so, then anti-war is pro tyranny, because they always let the aggressor invade.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Bernie voted for the bombing of Yugoslavia, he is not a "solid progressive"

[–] Lucky@lemmy.ml 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yugoslavia was invading Kosovo and commiting ethnic cleansing of Albanians at the time. Agree or disagree with how it was executed, it fits with the idea that he opposes the aggressors in war

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most of the ethnic cleansing happened as a result of the war. The intervention lead to an intensification of ethnic conflict.

[–] Lucky@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The intervention was a key reason the war ended after multiple years of conflict and ethnic cleansing. Are you saying that ending the war caused more ethnic cleansing afterwards than was already happening? That ending war made things less stable?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] Lucky@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This source seems completely unbiased and trustworthy.

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[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago

Source: Communist Party of India

lol

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[–] imPastaSyndrome@lemm.ee 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

THAT'S the war they choose to protest?

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Turns out being anti-war protesters means they're ANTI WAR.

What do you want them to do? Raise funds to send some missles over?

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess Ukraine could just use hopes and prayers to get Putin out of their front yard.

[–] Grimpen@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure that most of the solid anti-war protestors would expect Ukraine to just accept Russian territorial demands, up to and including complete annexation.

It turns into a reductio ad absurdum pretty quickly though. Putin didn't seem to return Crimea or the occupied regions of Donbass and Luhansk when asked politely. Not even when asked sternly. Indeed, it would seem that when all he faced was stern disapproval he decided to come back for more.

There is no doubt in my mind that supporting Ukraine now is stopping more Russian aggression later. Besides, Putin can end this war any time. Just go back to the original borders. The only reason not to is his yearning for Imperial glory. The irony being that many of these anti-war protestors would probably proclaim themselves anti-colonialists.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Putin can end this war any time. Just go back to the original borders.

Exactly.

If these anti-war protesters want to yell at the people who can stop the war, they need to protest at the Russian embassy.

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[–] Wahots@pawb.social 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Peace in Ukraine? Tell that to all the civilians in Bucha and other places that have bullets in their back, got executed against buildings, or were tied up and shot in the back of the head.

The russians even execute their own men with sledgehammers for being POWs. It's like walking in to Sandy Hook mid-massacre and asking "Why can't we all just be friends?" until you catch some 5.56 like an idiot.

Ukraine should invite these people out to the front to see what it's like, and talk to the civilians in recently liberated areas. Have them talk to the survivors and families of Bucha.

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[–] yumcake@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Supporting Ukraine IS anti-war.

It's a war of aggression and the fastest and ONLY way to stop such a war is to stop the aggressor. Appeasement simply allows the aggressor to continue perpetuating or expanding their war aims.

The waste is trickling arms to them instead of surging it. We need decisive Ukrainian victory to spare the lives of Ukrainians and Russians from Putin's war.

[–] pelikan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow, war is peace, literally

[–] YaBoyMax@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

This is nowhere near as deep as you think it is.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 7 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Eleven antiwar protesters were arrested Wednesday after they occupied the office of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Capitol Hill to demand the senator support efforts at diplomacy over sending further U.S. aid, such as weapons, to Ukraine.

Capitol Police arrested the 11 people inside the Dirksen Senate Office Building under a D.C. code that prohibits crowding, obstructing or incommoding, a Capitol Police spokesperson said.

The code is often cited when arresting protesters during peaceful planned acts of civil disobedience.

“Yes, Bernie should condemn the Russian invasion, but he should also be calling for a negotiated end to this brutal war,” Crystal Zevon, from Barnet, Vt., said in the news release.

A spokesperson for Sanders said the senator’s chief of staff, foreign policy adviser and Vermont state director met with Vermonters who were concerned about the war.

“The U.S. should support a just peace in Ukraine, based on the principles of territorial integrity, sovereignty, and international law,” Sanders wrote in the letter.


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