I joined this instance because it doesn't block/ defederate. Everyone can pick what they want to see cutting it off is stupid.
this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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I too joined this community because it hasn't blocked nor been blocked by any other community on Lemmy.
Is that a policy of this instance?
It's a policy of the community. You really should read sdf.org faq. Best regards.
This is the closest thing I could find that was related, can you send me what you found?:
Any illegal activities which includes, but certainly isn't limited to spamming, portflooding, portscanning, unauthorised connections to remote hosts and any sort of scam can really not be tolerated here. Why? Because there are many here on this system that can suffer from this sort of abuse. If you want to use SDF, you really have to care about this system and the people here. If you don't want to care, then you really shouldn't use this resource.
I did read the FAQ before asking this, I did not take it to mean it's a policy of the server not to defederate.
https://sdf.org/?tutorials/social_network
SDF - The Ethical Social Network What 'Social Network' means to us (a history lesson)
....To the users of the SDF Public Access UNIX System, 'SDF Social' is based on the concepts and principles of the early Social Networks that we have always been a part of and not the highly commercialized, for-profit and ethically questionable Social Networks of the late 1990s and 2000s.
Simply put, SDF has always been about Collaboration, Non-Commercialism, Choice and Privacy.
Choice is very important here. Anyway best of luck in your endeavour whatever it is.
Also in the IRC section there's something about "Common sense" it's a great read. Just saying. Best regards.
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I joined this instance because I wanted to learn, collaborate, and share tech- and art-related ideas in an environment not toxic like commercial social media that has been filled with bad actors. An environment more akin to the 1990s BBS systems where tech-misfits are free to be without being subjected to hate from those pushing anti-social philosophies.
If I am reading the situation wrong, I apologize.
The reason that I am not a member at beehaw was because they were overly wrapped up in concerns such as this one. I'm here for enjoyable chats with people, not to take sides in the latest macro-politics or causes or whatever lately is stirring the pot or making the winds blow. These things are fine and some people are interested in them, but I'm turned off by the idea of an instance that is particularly identified one way or another when I am not concerned with any of that.
What I'm looking for are kind souls that share an interest in technology and an instance that was widely federated so that a wide variety of my interest groups (music, weightloss, networking, ancient Stoicism) are available. That's why I joined here. SDF has been around a long time and many who have enjoyed its offerings have held many different opinions and yet shared this resource peacefully.
I'm particularly turned off by people that want a silo with only the right causes, only the right thinking, only the right speech.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't have management and protection of against those that are unkindly trolling or actively trying to do technical damage. Ban those actually doing evil. But if people of good cheer share different views kindky as neighbors and friends, I have no problem with that and don't want to see that roped off.
Remember the two rules of FidoNet? "Don't be excessively annoying. Don't be easily annoyed." That's all I'm saying.
You're reading the situation wrong. Go to those instances and read what's there, it's not about free speech, it's active disinformation campaigns and propaganda. I would feel the same if it was extreme leftist propaganda. It's not about creating an echo chamber. I respect the right to free speech, but that isn't the same as allowing people a platform to systematically organize hate using falsified information. This is a situation where silence is complicity. Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.
As usual, I have typed 500 words when 50 will do, and for that I apologize.
Go to those instances and read what’s there
No, I do not care to and why would you do that? You already have determined it's not right for you. Any alleged content problem that you have to see by going there would, if true, be a problem there. Does that make it a problem here? If I have to take extraordinary steps here to see it here, isn't that on me? Isn't the apparatus doing what it is supposed to be doing if I seek out a thing and find it?
The ultimate measure of freedom is the freedom to abstain. (Nobody is forcibly opting us in to reading their content.)
I'm just a regular user of SDF so these things aren't up to me, but I would think that it would take more than "because it exists." Defederation and Federation shouldn't be used to signal alignment and nonalignment of expression, but for reasons of managing the network itself. A telephone company provides service to everyone and doesn't care what you do with your phone. But, if someone is using it in a way that disrupts the network itself or others' ability to use the network, the telephone company should act to protect the overall integrity of the network. Even then it wouldn't silence the speech because of the speech, but because of the network.
Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.
Look, it's one thing to be put off by someone going out of their way to affront you. It's another to feel affronted after going out of your way to find if there is something objectionable anywhere. By that logic, since you have found something then defederation alone should not be enough, as "we are giving them a platform" still, because other people might visit there directly instead of through federation. Therefore, due to that situation, they should not have an DNS entry so you work on their Registrar to "deplatform" them. Then, because someone can connect using an IP address, their ISP should disconnect their service or else they're providing their ISP as a platform. But as they can get another ISP in this day of mobile connectivity, you could chase down their power company, yes, because their power company is a platform -- as is their landlord -- as is their employer. And so on.
I remain unconvinced.
You could write 5000 words and I doubt they would change their views. Still I certainly enjoyed reading your words. Best regards.
Edit: I somehow failed to copy and paste
~~>No, I do not care to and why would I?~~
No, I do not care to and why would you do that?
Let's not be like Reddit and comment essays without reading the article. That's why. You don't even know what you're arguing for if you don't look at it.
If I have to take extraordinary steps here to see it here, isn't that on me? Isn't the apparatus doing what it is supposed to be doing if I seek out a thing and find it?
It's been all over my all feed personally, maybe you just don't pay attention to where content is coming from?
going out of your way to find if there is something objectionable anywhere
See above
because other people might visit there directly instead of through federation
See above
Therefore, due to that situation, they should not have an DNS entry so you work on their Registrar to "deplatform" them.
No, I believe the internet is the utility. Unless actual crimes are being committed, they can have their websites. The key difference here is lemmy.sdf.org is relaying the posts from its own server, and therefore participating in spreading harmful disinformation. It's not like a telephone company that lets anyone call, it's like a newspaper that published anyone's articles, or a bulletin board at the library that doesn't moderate what's there.
No, I do not care to and why would I?
If you are going to quote me, quote me. Do not edit my quotes.
Let’s not be like Reddit and comment essays without reading the article. That’s why. You don’t even know what you’re arguing for if you don’t look at it.
Your article is the article. Your story is you read something somewhere about these sites, not from the sites. You passed it along, later checking and finding that some of the first facts were wrong (which is fine, that happens), but that you still think there were problems here. Perhaps, even bigger problems here.
I don't need to visit any other sites to hold the principle that federation or defederation is about network management, not the views or viewpoints of the content. Not whether the content is right or wrong or factual or not, but whether it impacts the federation itself.
If I was in charge of network or systems management here, my main concern with all of this would be that rammy.site is reportedly without any moderation/administration. But I'm just a user here, and it seems that you are too. You've said your bit, I've said mine, and we both been cordial about it.
You should keep talking about this if you remain interested in it, but I'm moving on. I just wanted to voice my view that the reason I joined this instance was because it was widely federated and not involved in what was going on at beehaw.
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I don't want to create an echo chamber, so lets make sure that people I disagree with can never talk to anyone who doesn't agree with them
it’s active disinformation campaigns and propaganda.
That's for me to decide, not for you to decide on my behalf.
Edit:
Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.
This entire ideology is bullshit and I am not interested in being on instances run by people who believe it.
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You are aware that defederating from an instance won't stop individual users from that instance joining yours?
To be honest your view on things seems far too innocent, like paradox of tolerance manifest. What you desire is something that's fought for and fiercely defended. The rest of the internet should serve evidence for why we can't just have nice things.
Also did you look at the instances in question yourself?
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I seriously doubt sdf.org will defederate due to political, religious or other kind of views unless some kind of danger to its users is involved, and even then I'm pretty sure we would go to ARPA votes over it. While the instance might be recent the community behind sdf.org is ancient (I say this with my utmost respect for them ) so yea, not their first rodeo or last one. If you don't like the views of those instances feel free to block them yourself. Best regards.
Why does everyone keep thinking this is about political views?
Because most of the time people who cry about being forced to see things they don't like are crying about a political topic. You can control what you block yourself. Don't drag the rest of us into your own echo chamber.
Maybe because of the literal content of your post?
I scrolled through some of their posts and comments and it’s full of ridiculous anti-left propaganda, for example a post where some liberal Florida family fleeing the state when some child protection laws got passed, implying liberals abuse children and won’t live in a state that doesn’t allow them to.
I've got news for you: the entire planet has not taken up American political idiocy. Nobody outside of the USA (and many of the people in it) gives a fuck about American political slapfights.
If you want a safe space instance for one or another American "team," find it somewhere else or start one yourself.
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Please don't! The whole reason I made an account here is because they don't defederate. I want to control what I read. If you have a problem with a certain instance or user, block them yourself! It's very easy.
I don't want to have to spin up a whole instance just for myself.
I can block users or communities but I don't think there's a way to block instances.
There are some tricks you can do with uBlock, which I've done, but that doesn't help on apps.
I hope this feature gets added to Lemmy at some point.
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You said it better than I was going to. Keeping truthaboutjews.ru out of grandma's feed is one thing, but I feel like I'm savvy enough to read garbage responsibly. Maybe I'm being overconfident but there it is.
Do you have the same level of confidence in children and people who are deeply mentally ill?
If you want to read far-right trash, you can set up an account on a far-right trash server, rather than insisting that everybody else on the instance tolerates them for your convenience.
Their posts might be a harmless novelty for you but for others, they're threats of violence and celebrations of abuse.
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I'm not in favor of defederating over political preference at all. I don't come to this instance expecting an echo chamber, and an echo chamber is precisely what I do not want.
It's not political difference, it's disinformation and propaganda. Just look, even if you're conservative you should be able to see how messed up it is unless you lack critical thinking skills
lemmygrad.ml is also full of propaganda and nobody seems to be trying to defederate it.
lemmygrad is actually pretty far up the rankings in the defederated-by stats I saw a couple weeks ago 😅
Whether people have a right to exist or have basic human rights is not political preference. And disinformation is in direct conflict with free and open knowledge and learning.
Maybe I should have removed the word "conservative" in my post. Oh wait, I didn't use the word conservative. This isn't political, but if you took it to be political, that would imply to me that you consider spreading false information to be part of the conservative platform.
Imo deferderating should be a last resort. And so far I haven't seen any excessive cases of people coming over and breaking the rules of this instance.
Yep, exploding heads is a cesspool.
Yes, please. I'm very much in favor of this, too.
The exploding-heads troll communities are tongue in cheek, and intended to rustle your jimmies. You're taking the bait.
And as 4chan taught us, ironic tongue-in-cheek bigotry leads to an environment where people engage in rational conversations about equitable and inclusive society.
Wait no, it leads to a cesspool of racists encouraging each other to livestream their mass shooting of “inferior” races.
You’re taking the bait of the “free marketplace of ideas”.
Very well said. This is why I am also in favor of "defederating over political preference".
Tolerating intolerance leads to violence but deplatforming actually does work to reduce harm.
We should defederate from hateful and abusive instances
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They're also not, look closer at the discussions
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I don't like right wingers either but I do not believe that suppressing speech helps anyone (unless people start doxxing, swatting, dogpiling, etc) but I just went to check out exploding-heads and the first I saw was this clip of a Pfizer representative admitting that their employees got a different COVID vaccine in a senate hearing. I mean, can someone debunk that? Is it just taken out of context? Is the video doctored? Is this "fake news"? If so, provide data and sources. If you suppress something like this you're not doing anyone a favor.
And now that almost 80% of the population are vaccinated anyways, the "vaccination hesitancy" argument doesn't really hold value.
Just went through some other posts there and I don't agree with a lot of their takes. Reading their rules I see no reason to defederate.
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If they have anything interesting or non-hateful to say they'll say it on another instance. The hate they spew is only on these instances because the admins are hateful.
If there is a vote I will vote to defederate and I'll sleep perfectly well because the slippery slope fallacy is just that. If I want to see their hateful garbage I'll sign up for an account there.
I have to wonder if the people staunchly against defederation at any cost ever dealt with redditors from hate subs following them around reddit from sub to sub everywhere they posted to keep screaming at them about trans women not being women, while also repeatedly reporting them to Reddits suicide bot to try to make them think about suicide. It's not exactly the nicest online experience and I had it more than once in my time on reddit.
To me the benefit of federation includes defederation. If it was easy to just say "get rid of all the users from r/hatesub" on reddit it would have been a lot nicer. I don't know why people are clamoring to keep hateful shit around. Go join the hateful shit instance if you want to read it so bad but I'd rather the users of an instance like that not be able to see me at all since queer people like me are who they hate so bad, and I can't exactly block all of them.
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I would suggest just not subscribing to any communities on that site. Let's not turn everything into a defederate ~~war~~ debate.
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