this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
274 points (100.0% liked)

Privacy

789 readers
48 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Does anyone else feel as if it's over when it comes to really owning your own things?

As of now:

  • You don't have the option of having a phone with decent specs and replaceable parts
  • You have to have really good knowledge in tech to have private services that are on par with what the big companies offer
  • You have to put up with annoying compatibility issues if you install a custom ROM on your android phone
  • You cannot escape apps preventing you from using them if you root your device
  • Cars are becoming SaaS bullcrap
  • Everything is going for a subscription model in general

And now Google is attempting to implement DRM on websites. If that goes through, Firefox is going to be relegated to privacy conscious websites (there aren't many of those). At this point, why even bother? Why do I go to great lengths at protecting my privacy if it means that I can't use most services I want?

It sucks because the obvious solution is for people to move away from these bullshit companies and show that they actually care about their privacy. Even more important is to actually PAY for services they like instead of relying on free stuff. I'm not optimistic not just because the non privacy conscious side is lazy, but because my side is greedy. I mean one of the most popular communities on lemmy is "piracy" which makes it all the more reasonable for companies not to listen to privacy conscious people.

I wouldn't say that this is the endgame but in this trajectory, privacy is gone before 2030.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] sexy_peach@feddit.de 72 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You will forever have these feelings, if you have a better world than the status quo in mind. Be careful to not be overwhelmed by them, if you suffer too much long term you could give up or become a cynic. Nothing is perfect, we strive to make better systems (and smartphones).

[–] Gutless2615@ttrpg.network 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being a cynic is entirely reasonable and probably a good thing

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

I disagree.

/nihilist

[–] spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah I guess it never really was perfect. But this one really caught me off guard since I took it for granted that the web is more free than the walled gardens that Google and Apple make. But the FOSS community is making some cool stuff these days that we gotta focus on.

[–] Thalestr 68 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Honestly? As I get older and as the tech industry chokes itself to death in pursuit of infinite profit, I find myself doing more and more things away from the computer or the internet at the very least. Spending time outside doing stuff, exercising, reading books, partaking in art or other creative pursuits, having pets, etc. I have really dialed back my social media involvement and I hardly ever use my phone now.

The internet is absolute garbage now. It's a completely unregulated trash fire that is only getting hotter as more gasoline gets dumped on it. The internet I grew up with, the internet of seemingly endless possibility and unfathomable amounts of information, is long gone. Search results (from any engine) are all SEO trash, websites are just AI-generated garbage covered in ads, and every app or service is a subscription that promises to suck even more money out of my bank account for basic services. Not to mention that all of the above will also monitor every single bit of my activity and sell it to third party buyers. If tech is just going to exist to be an ad-delivery platform then I can do without it. People did for decades, centuries, and we can too.

This bubble is going to pop eventually. It not might be today or tomorrow, but it is going to happen. This is not sustainable.

[–] tocano@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The internet is absolute garbage now

Well, it always was. The internet was always filled with low effort webpages with ads from top to bottom. The only change is that as people got better at avoiding the old scams, new ones appeared with better CSS and more psychological manipulation.

ad-delivery platform

It is basically this. Most websites just try and dig into your profile, masking it as "personalized customer service", but the real intention is to know what you do, who you talk to, and try to sell you goods & services.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

It definitely wasn't always that. Sure, there were lazy, greedy, fuckers in the early internet putting up crap content and "you're the 1 millionth visitor, you win an iPhone!" Pop-ups, but for a good decade or more the internet was filled with passion projects. Websites and services built from passion and desire, not for an endless pursuit of money. When corporations were ignoring the internet as a fad, it was a remarkable place. Once they realized how much money Google and MySpace were making, they all jumped in head first and began the rapid enshitification of the digital frontier. The same type of people that ruined the physical frontier ruined the digital one as well. Pinche jotos.

Not always. Believe it or not it used to be kinda like it is now, here.

With the technical barriers to entry pre AOL the people online were outcasts, nerds, and science departments at universities. The ad driven model is the attempt to lower barriers of entry make profit of that and not the other way around. Lots of the Internet ran on generosity and donations.

It's been shittier every day after there was an agreement on how to monetize though. The people at the start didn't ever have the guarantee it would get adopted, so for all the idealism we deal with their compromises.

[–] float@waveform.social 4 points 1 year ago

This is the way. I'm basically only online at work now. Once I'm home I just smoke a bowl and relax offline. I've been making music a bunch lately and going on photo walks. I used to play video games to pass the time but even those are awful now.

[–] Gutless2615@ttrpg.network 60 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The walls of the cyberpunk dystopia are being built up around us

[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 59 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We get all of the bad parts, without any of the cool parts. Except for smart phones. Smart phones are pretty amazing, actually.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 year ago

It sucks because the obvious solution is for people to move away from these bullshit companies and show that they actually care about their privacy.

They don't. People don't care, don't understand, and don't care that they don't understand. The average person is oblivious of the way the world around them works, and they're okay with that. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] spookedbyroaches@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago
  • I know about Fairphone but the specs are a bit limited IMO.
  • I do have a Pixel with the stock (I know bad idea) ROM but I rooted it. I do have the kdrag0n Safetynet fix, but there is one app that somehow finds out about it. I guess one app out of however many I have is not too bad now that I think about it.
  • I haven't really looked too far into this, but I assume that they build some tamper detection in the seat warmers (unless they're incompetent or lazy). But the good news is that the seat warming subscription is no longer there.
  • For this one I was just looking for things to complain about. I have no subscriptions for media and just buy the physical stuff (or digital from Bandcamp).

I guess it's not a guarantee that DRM would be that proliferated and I can avoid it. I was being way to pessimistic at the time.

Thanks for uplifting words mate!

[–] rglullis@communick.news 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Fairphone exists

As someone who has a Fairphone 3: they destroyed any trust I had in them the moment the FP4 came without headphone jack and with a different form factor. I thought that their idea would be that each module could be upgraded independently. That's what would make their offering truly innovative and eco-friendly. By departing from that, they simply became a manufacturer of overpriced phones with slightly better ethics.

ROM quality depends on your make and model,

I am using /e/OS since when I got the FP (what, 3 years ago?) and to this day the applications that need GPS are completely unreliable. I gave up on using bikesharing systems here because their apps simply fail all the time to get my location.

but they give you a ton of hardware for free

It's not free. There is no marginal cost in what they are doing. This is all a cash grab and an attempt to further segment the market.

Everyone wants music, nobody wants to buy CDs, nobody wants to buy MP3s, and all that’s left is subscriptions.

If the lion share of music revenue went to artists, you can bet that more people would pay for it. But we know for years that this is not the case. Same for movies.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] b1ab@lem.monster 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

God bless the hackers, crackers, reverse engineers, and disrupters. Pray they help keep you free of too much pain.

[–] Deathcrow@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

God bless the hackers, crackers, reverse engineers, and disrupters. Pray they help keep you free of too much pain.

That's delusional. As soon as more and more parts of software are run remotely on proprietary hard- & software there will be nothing to hack or crack. Sure, someone could reverse engineer it, but there aren't enough hobbyists in the world to rewrite all this software.

We see this more and more in gaming... it used to be the case that they just gave you the software to run your own game in multiplayer setups, nowadays, if they shut off the servers, the game is dead (unless, someone releases a very wonky, extremely buggy, barely usable, reverse engineered server with 10% of the features some time down the line)

[–] kostel_thecreed@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wouldn't google's DRM be considered a monopoly? Not in the US, but don't they have laws and regulations against this type of stuff?

[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nah, because it will be considered a service that people choose to integrate with, and you won't be required to use Google's authentication service

[–] Brustadnrift@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, also pretty sure Meta will roll their own offering too since the main appeal is for advertisers.

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So my choice is gonna be between Google or Meta?

Real Sophie’s Choice there huh? 🫠

[–] watson387@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

At that point, other than at work, I will stop using the internet.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

You will if you want your website indexed by Google.

[–] rainh@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even if it was, it likely wouldn't be enforced, since it's overseen by lawmakers and judges who have only the barest sense of what a webpage even is.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Hank@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you reduce your consumption corporations can't screw you over that much. Also it's good for the environment.

[–] tocano@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

true. why should I need a facebook account? I only need to talk to the few dozen people I know, not to the millions or billions of mostly bot accounts.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago

Me in the 90s.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

There's a phone company out of Europe, Fairphone, that's striving to fix these problems. I can't really say if their specs are up to par or not (fwiw their newest phone can do 5G), but you can repair you phone with their Spare Parts offerings, like the selfie camera, earpiece, rear cameras, speaker, USB-C port, display, back cover, battery, etc.

Issue is that you can't buy it in the US or elsewhere, but there are some tricks where you can get it into the US/CA by going with Clove or Reship.

Phone looks to work best on T-Mobile networks, so AT&T or Verizon users might see terrible performance.

So, not panacea, but a decent solution for those willing to go down that path.

[–] Aatube@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

help the fact that you only put a one in the first paragraph is bothering me

I’ve never heard of Clove or Reship before though, thanks!

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Compatibility issues? Unspecified root problems? Nope, I ain't feeling'em.

Tech knowledge is required to use smaller services? Just a fraction of what was required before, just about enough to operate in digital world in general.

Cars are becoming SaaS? Whatever brings them closer to extinction works for me.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some companies are trying to bring SaaS to the world of bicycles. It's not going well. Or rather, they're going out of business.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] bumbly@readit.buzz 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Things aren't as bleak in Europe :)

[–] tocano@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, we still suffer a bit. A lot of internet content originates from USA and the rest of America. And the big tech companies, who control a lot of the market standards, are also from there.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] tocano@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I undertand this feeling. I have a group of friends which use Messenger as a main chat app and they refuse to stop using it for convenience, but most of the features they label as convenience are the exact thing that are wrong with it. Many other platforms, despite not being perfect, have the same/more features and are better implemented.

Even if you transfer to a new and better platform, the big companies don't let go easily. They buy those new platforms and change them or just nuke them. If they can't, they will use ways to detect who is using alternative platforms and alienate them. It is just like the Phoebus cartel, which controlled progress to maximize profit. They are not against you or progress, they are against anything which reduces their potential monetary value.

I disagree when you mention subscriptions as a bad thing. Subscriptions have existed since forever, and work well when you deal with a service, for example paying a subscription to a video creator you like, or maintenance costs of hardware you use.

But not everything is grim. I have seen a lot of new FLOSS projects appearing everywhere, and people are becoming more aware of the many alternatives. I've even seen non programmers using ChatGPT (or equivalent) to create their own self-hosted platforms, showing that even those not techinal people are able to contribute to the general community.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I didn't understand when everyone jumped on Facebook messenger instead of just using their phone's built in text messaging and I still don't. It's like people crave spying or something...

[–] Aatube@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The Phoebus Cartel is not the greatest example, since there’s a solid argument for energy efficiency. I also think most cases of software subscriptions are bad and far worse than e.g. Adobe’s CS days

[–] hobs@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's the #enshitification of everything. I listened to an interview with SAG-AFTRA by a new podcaster trying to survive and just when they start talking about the investors and products admitting to trying to build out till October when actors and writers start getting evicted... then some Amazon streaming services ad. And it happened again towards the end. And no warning or apology or mindfulness from the podcaster. So so depressing. The interview was great and happy to have heard it. Wish I could get access to information unpolluted by advertisement and capitalism. Thank goodness for the fediverse.

[–] off_brand_ 9 points 1 year ago

Not that it contradicts your comment, but it's worth noting those ads could well have been inserted by the platform or the podcast publisher.

[–] nottheengineer@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agreed, I'm currently moving my digital life to free software to escape that bullshit.

While everything else seems to be caught up in enshittification, free software is constantly improving.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] lunaticneko@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They consider revenue streams more important than one-off payment.

So everything becomes service and we are left in this non-ownership economy where we own nothing.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

If the companies and our government have their way, then yes, they will be able to monitor our every move and make sure we rent everything and own nothing.

This runs against the grain of the Constitution of the United States, but our Federalist Society SCOTUS jurists have been gutting the fourth and fifth amendments long before the Dobbs decision triggered a public hue and cry.

And it's going to be up to us to regard censorship as damage and route around it. Essentially, there are repair shops that can fix your iPhone for you even if they're not authorized and will even replace proprietary bolts with standard ones. Eventually right-to-repair will be established by courts if not legislators, state-by-state if not federally.

There are too many complexities in the system to lock us down permanently into their walled gardens, but they will try until we respond with [redacted] until ashes cloud the skys.

[–] Turkey_Titty_city@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

digital anything was never a thing you owned. it's a thing you lease.

if you want to own things buy physical copies.

no idea what you are on about the phone. I buy moto phones for like $150 unlocked and they are great.

[–] Gutless2615@ttrpg.network 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I own tons of digital files, stores on silicon and metal in my possession and not connected to the internet. Not owning digital files is a relatively new and entirely artificial construction.

[–] rainh@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

My X TB music library goes brrr
Spotify who?

[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Data is a physical object. Change my mind.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Technology creates fiefdoms where rentiers extract value from the rest of us. But I’m not losing hope

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Don't blame technology; blame capitalism. Technology could equally well be used to benefit everyone, but doing that doesn't vastly increase the personal wealth of the already wealthy.

[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

This is exactly it. Free Open Source Software aims to benefit everyone, but the downside is that it has mostly benefited private corporations who leech off of the free labor of the FOSS community. Capitalism ruins fucking everything.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] mightysashiman@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You don’t have the option of having a phone with decent specs and replaceable parts

For now it is indeed an issue. It may get better as EU imposes easily replaceable batteries for instance.

You have to have really good knowledge in tech to have private services that are on par with what the big companies offer

Well yes, because technology is complicated by nature. BigTech inject billions in making stuff simple and UX pleasant precisely to attract layman customers. Privacy-focused tech companies have less money, put a lot of effort in privacy tech, and are less mature UX-wise than classic bigTech. Customers also want more privacy, but have a hard time paying for anything. At some point the customer has to come to terms with coherence. Vote with your wallet.

You have to put up with annoying compatibility issues if you install a custom ROM on your android phone

No you don’t necessarily. LineageOS works perfectly on my Oneplus 6T.

You cannot escape apps preventing you from using them if you root your device

Yes you can. Magisk Root + Universal SafetyNet Fix v2.4.0-MOD_1.2 (by kdrag0n, modded by Displax) + editing the deny list properly.

Cars are becoming SaaS bullcrap

Use public transport when possible. Rent cars when really not possible. Problem solved.

Everything is going for a subscription model in general

I understand it’s frustrating. At the same time we either expect a constant stream of updates, or everything-IT requires regular updating if only for security purposes. Companies have employees to pay. Do you work for free?

load more comments
view more: next ›