Asklemmy

My folks are chill. My mom and her friends are passionately cool. My dad DGAF. He's cool, but he's also a charter boat captain which means lots of sportsmen so he has to be able to ignore/get along with anyone. He just gives a noncommittal grunt and steers the conversation back to fishing.

My father in law is okay. Ex cop so opposite of ACAB. Spouts Fox News bullshit, but he sat out the last election because he has like 8 granddaughters and at least one gay grandson. He's a good guy as long as you don't talk about anything political. He accepted my kid when they identified as trans for a bit. (Jury's still out. Don't care, they just don't seem committed to anything right now.)

His brothers, though, what fucking assholes. I have to tolerate them for my wife's sake because she can't deal with family strife but I actually had to sit in a public restaurant with one of them making buck teeth and shouting "Ching Chang Chong" when saying something insulting about Asians, then "oh but now I'm racist." Right you are, motherfucker. Disgusting. Humiliating.

My ability to even mildly rebuke them is limited by my need to keep the peace for my wife. But if I could I'd just tell them to let me know when they are done acting that way, and I'd get a drink at the bar.

IIRC, the Americans with Disabilities Act was a product of protest. People across the country one day blocked buses and intersections, and now we have curb cuts, automatic buttons at doors, handle bars in public shitters, etc. (any corrections welcome, it was a podcast I listened to 2 years ago, I'm not American)

I wonder if your 80 nana benefits from any of those on a regular basis?

"When will there be straight pride month?"

No.

My dad ain't nice but he can be tolerant, my mum can be nice but her extremely narrow worldview does not let her be tolerant, and my grandma is neither nice nor tolerant. Never met really met my other grandparents to comment.

They never challenged their conservative upbringing, and never faced progressive values until well into their adulthood, since social issues move at a glacial pace where I'm at. I don't blame them for having those values at some point, but they should strive to change (well, my parents at least).

My parents, yes absolutely. They are responsible for me growing up to be a tolerant, left-leaning person in a mostly conservative rural area. Being boomers, they might not be up to date with all the current LGBT terms or things like that, but they definitely have/had an open mind and don't judge people.

My paternal grandparents (born in the 1910s and 1920s) were very religious. My dad had to suffer a very strict upbringing under them. He was not allowed to read comics, watch TV, read sci-fi novels etc (though he did all of these things in secret). I only knew them as a child when they were already in their 80s and they were nice to me, but from what I've heard from my dad not necessarily nice people, and definitely not tolerant.

My maternal grandma (never knew my grandpa) rarely ever talked about politics or society or anything. She was a very down-to-earth person. That said, she definitely held some bigoted views in the form of prejudice against foreigners. She had major reservations when some Turkish people moved in next door. She eventually became friends with them though, so she managed to overcome her prejudice. I'd say she was a nice person.

Can I ask why you can't let them talk their nonsense? I know you don't think you can change them so if you choose to hang out with them, why can't you just let them be them? I'm not telling you that you should hang out with them, just that joining in on their discussion is a zero sum game.

I chose not to interact with family any longer and haven't spoken to any of them in years. Not out of anger or spite but simply because none of us were getting anything positive from the relationship.

My parents are still very Mormon, which means being openly bigoted is bad manners. That said, I don't think I ever visit without my dad saying something about climate change being a hoax, illegals voting in California, wildfires being part of some AntiFa conspiracy, etc. Can't tell whether he sincerely believes this nonsense or is just trying to get a reaction. I try not to engage other than asking where he learned about it and how he's tried to fact check it. These discussions are not productive, and I don't visit unless it's a major holiday or someone's birthday.

Yepp, pretty typical. I have family that calls themselves progressive and say similar shit to yours.

I pretty much resorted to considering them all dead.

It’s pretty funny when they wonder why I don’t come around anymore. “It’s because of you, you bigoted racist piece of garbage fuck.”

Mom is cool, super accepting. My dad is a weirdo trumper. My MIL is also accepting of many but is a bit racist and not yet accepting of trans folks.

All the grands were worse. The surviving one isn't overtly so but is passive aggressive about it, so better than my dad at least.

Check out Christian Welzel’s work on how values have changed over time. The world is becoming more secular and more democratic. Secular in this context means that religion plays less and less of a role in every day life. Democratic in this context means that they believe everyone should be able to pursue their interests and we should have a system that increases all of our capabilities to pursue our interests.

An implication of adopting democratic values is that you understand that your identity is not defined by “white”, “able-bodied”, or whatever, but by the fact that we are aware. By doing this, you’re not giving special treatment to your in-group (whichever it may be), but you’re considering all of humanity (and all aware beings) as equals and as a group that you belong to. Cosmopolitanism is an example of this stance.

Something else that is happening is that the world is becoming more reflexive. Check out Anthony Giddens’ texts on this.

But, to answer your question directly, yes, grandparents and parents are generally less welcoming and less tolerant.

Mom, yes. Dad, no.

Dad's a bigot that doesn't understand why he can't use "those kind of words" these days so he rants about it in private.

HOWEVER...he would never say it to their face, he's at least THAT self-aware. And for the most part, he wouldn't hassle them (or anyone).

While his personal beliefs are most certainly bigoted. He's anti-LGBTQ+, anti-indigenous (we're in Canada), anti-immigrant (he himself IS a fucking immigrant...smh)

But his biggest trait is simply live and let live. He doesn't agree with them, but he has no interest in forcing that disagreement upon them.

He basically believes in everyone minding their own damn business regardless of what they may personally believe.

My dad couldn't be cooler. My grandmother and all her friends are very chill too. My grandfather is sometimes grumpy and weird about stuff, but shuts up or changes his mind about it pretty quickly. My mother, and probably that whole part of the family, is pretty conservative-right. Not very nice.

None of them are obviously bigoted but all of them are complacent at the very least and some of them are certainly internally bigoted and it seeps out

My Grandad is quite progressive. My Dad on the other hand is. Not. Most of that side of the family is quite progressive.

My mothers side is a mixed bag Mum is progressive, omi definitely isn't and the aunts and uncles are all over the spectrum.

I think we all have some things that we either don't talk about to maintain relationships. Of course usually thats respected by both sides.

Do they care that you call them out? Do you dislike doing it? If neither happens it can be useful for people to realize they're not necessarily holding a position that "everyone does". It's useful to be taken out of your bubble I think, and to see "regular people" can have different positions, and maybe try and understand why they do. It might change someone's mind.

If course if they or you get worked up by the discussion and no one is getting anything out of it, no one is even 'agree to disagree' and it's just causing everyone stress... Then you need to clearly lay out that you don't like those sorts of comments.

If they ignore you, then you need to decide how much you want the relationship. You could say "I'm serious about these comments. If you don't want to stop then you need to decide how much you want to see or interact with me. Because I am willing to just avoid these discussions, but I will not keep hearing these comments, and will stop coming."

Yeah, my parents are perfect, my grandparents are like ~80% there. One side is a bit religious conservative (thankfully anti-Trump), and the other side's grandfather has an odd idea that all black people naturally don't want to work. Other than that one sentiment, he isn't racist in the slightest, but he insists that's the case.

Asking for things to be like when she was younger, to which I asked if she was a fan of Nazi Germany as she grew up post WWII.

Uh, what? Why the hell would you equate growing up in Germany after WWII with Nazis?

I guess I am wondering how can I come from a family that seemingly has no compassion for anybody and even less empathy for anybody different than them.

Maybe start with yourself? Recognize change is difficult, nostalgia is comfortable, and for someone who grew up pre-internet by several decades, the current world is probably overwhelming at times.

Your family's comments on the number of black athletes and on paralympics sound sus, but you don't exactly present yourself as a beacon of inclusivity either.

Self-reflection is a great place to start to grow empathy and understanding of others. Or to discover for oneself when it's time to cut losses.

My grandma used to be, but years of Facebook right-wing propaganda has poisoned her.

Now she spouts conspiracy talking points about the "trans agenda" immigration, and so forth.

My parents have always been pretty right wing but covid pushed them even farther.

They aren't hardcore MAGA nuts, but they are pretty pro Trump, especially my dad. They also buy the propaganda from Fox news hook, line, and sinker.

Mother: Had a very old timey demeanor, perhaps due to her age when it all happened. Was nice but also had that obligatory TV Land level of strictness/sternness. Surprisingly understanding of issues of race, religion, disability, etc. but I had to come out of the closet several times since she didn't really understand asexuality, which I guess based on her upbringing in the world's most interesting place is understandable. She also remarked some of the traditions I picked up pieces of later in life seemed convoluted, though did not elaborate on this commentary.

Father: Very different from my mum aside from being from a different part of the same area. He was carefree and I guess nice, but, for technical reasons, also distant from me. It was a very "implied love" type of dynamic. He was tolerant of almost everyone, but if someone were to call our family "all that and a bag of chips", he consistently considered me the bag of chips, and the weird salt and vinegar kind, to use an analogy. He also showed signs of being annoyed with my special needs.

Grandfather: Most considerate person ever. He gets a perfect score in love and tolerance, even if he seemed quietly upset at my less-than-worldly habits.

Other grandparents: Never knew them that well, if at all.

more or less. my grandparents are already dead, but as far as i remember the last one living of them which i had contact with (my mother's mother) was ok with lgbtq+ people (as far as defending their right to marriage) and quite concerned with the rights of disabled, but was somehow racist towards black and indigenous people, and could not stand demonstrations of social movements (i.e. sit-ins from landless workers and squatters, strikes and the like). my parents go about the same, but my mom is much less racist.

My mom is. That’s about it. My grandparents are all passed now, but they were mostly either racist, or highly opinionated with little regard for evidence.

I don't have any living ones, but at least on my mom's side they seem to have been pretty nice people. Can't say much about my grandpa in his elderly age since he died when I was fairly young, but my grandma was sweet, whether she was just at home or out and about.

Can't say much for my grandpa on my dad's side since I don't remember him, but from what I've heard from stories from my parents, he may not have been the nicest person in general. Definitely glad I didn't grow up with him because I remember a story my dad told of him breaking a dish at his house and then hiding in a closet, not knowing how he'd react to the broken dish or something like that. Something like that. Thankfully my dad is absolutely nothing like how his dad sounded. And my grandma on his side didn't seem much better, considering when my mom was pregnant with my oldest brother she tried to get my dad to ditch her.

Edit:

I've been told before that my mom absolutely wouldn't let me or my older brothers be alone with my grandpa on my dad's side.

Edit Edit:

As for tolerant, I can't speak for any of them that much, but I at least know my grandpa on my dad's side had to have some degree of tolerance considering he was gay and at one point had a partner. I assume being married to my grandma was more of one of those societal pressures back then. Just getting married in general, even if it ends in a divorce like their marriage did.

Depending on how old you are, and whether you are financially dependent on them, I would tell them to go fuck themselves. I'd also tell your grandma the world is changing, she's gonna die soon, and there's nothing she can do to change either one. Flip them the bird and walk out.

Obviously, personalities are different. This might not work for you, but you can't just fight back with facts because they refuse to play that way. If they want to throw this kind of shit your way, you have no obligation, nor should you, play by the rules of "they go low, we go high". That's always been bullshit anyway. Especially in a situation like this.

My father was very anti-categorization, and actively challenged anyone with such mindsets. He'd stare people down on the subway that glanced at him. He'd call out anyone that made a remark about him regarding anything and labelling him or anyone else as "you people". He went into great detail in his explanation to me that people, even when homogeneous ethnicity, will categorize others automatically based on traits, often putting individuals into catch-all boxes mentally. And how it can or could be overcome.

At the same time, he loved a good ethnic joke. Even self-deprecating ones. One of his favourites was:

The Scotsman takes his son to the market fair. They buy a watermelon and consume it with gusto.

A year later they go to the market fair again. The son asks if he can have a drink. To which the Scotsman replies:

Beer after melon?

Parents are tolerant, as are/were grandparents for the most part. Nice is a much more mixed bag.