this post was submitted on 17 May 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

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First meme (hopefully good) (lemm.ee)
submitted 4 months ago by Val@lemm.ee to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 60 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Step 1: hit snooze

Step 2: use the extra time to build dual power and/or electoral reform.

Note: The time to build an alternative to the DNC for 2024 was no less than 4 years ago. The time to start building the coalition for 2028 starts no later than December 2024.

Note: the time to build dual power is any day you can afford the time, acumen, and experiense.

Step 3: hit snooze again.

Voting doesn't change anything. Not voting kills us.

We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

[–] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Worked sooo great the last time.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This, but unironically. Considering the fact that right-wing violence has decreased, Ukraine has remained standing, and fascist rhetoric is on the decline.

If you're dissatisfied with the results, consider engaging in the aforementioned tactics instead of yelling at people who have a plan.

[–] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This, but unironically.

WDYM, the system is still the bad-vs-worse with no path to citizen interests in sight.

consider engaging in the aforementioned tactics

I can't.

instead of yelling at people who have a plan

to fail again. But you're right, that's your country to blow.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Have you considered that complaining about Americans voting when you don't need to live with the consequences is, perhaps, not exactly good form?

[–] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Have you considered that I could be living with the consequences? USpol dysfunction has an unpleasantly wide reach across the globe.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay. Please describe what you course of action you're advocating for and the intended results.

[–] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The majority, including the slice that votes the lesser evil because they don't want the larger evil, realizes the current sports team rivalry is no substitute for a government, coordinates and votes independent. US gets a government representing the interests of Americans until either the lobbying mechanism gets eradicated or the government gets repurchased anew. Yes, I know, I am idealistic.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I see 3 desires and no proposed course of action. There's no plan here to make an independent vote be anything aside from a waste. There's nothing to set forth a series of events that leads to more people discarding the conceptualization of political sports teams. There's a difference between being "idealistic" and not having any plan. I am idealistic. I've told you my plan, and I believe it has the potential to bring about the results you want, so even if there's really no way for you to support my endeavor you should at least stop trying to make my task harder.

[–] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 1 points 4 months ago

Your "plan" is to tell people in an obscure corner of the internet to rest before digging your country a deeper grave. Mine is to tell you co come to your senses in the comments. None of us offers a course of action.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We need to get ourselves some Approval Voting and some kind of proportional representation (linked is one way you can use approval in a proportional election)!

[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Approval voting, STAR voting, Ranked-choice voting- I don't care, just get me out of this first-past-the-pole nightmare!

[–] Liz@midwest.social 2 points 4 months ago

Yeah I agree, arguably the proportional representation part is more important, but it's easier to start small and then repurpose your organization for bigger goals. I push for approval because:

  1. practically anything is way better than FPTP

  2. It requires zero voter education to implement

  3. it can easily be adapted to any kind of winner system

  4. A whole bunch of other stuff that gets into graphs and voting criterion and shit like that

[–] Uiop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I really dont understand americans, they are so proud of their weapons yet can't control them so theres a school-shooting every month or so. But when there is a grown-up (politician/capitalist) they suddenly dont have their guns anymore?

It seems shooting kids is easier then shooting the evil people. Not that I would ever do either...

just saying, dead people cannot maintain a broken system.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I really dont understand americans

Politicians strategically used gun rights as a wedge issue to ensure that the segment of the population with the most guns are more likely to be intensely loyal to the fascist continent of our political class. Furthermore, our law enforcement has more and even bigger guns.

[–] Uiop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"Furthermore, our law enforcement has more and even bigger guns"

yes, but guns kill people. if you manage to shoot someone in the head, say from a window/balcony in a hotel, they are dead. regardless of bigness of gun.

The people with bigger guns ought to protect the children or something.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Are you high?

[–] Uiop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

depends on whos asking.

[–] DessertStorms@kbin.social 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Love it, though would have put "abolish the system" rather than "fix the system" myself, since that implies trying to work within the existing framework, rather than completely outside of it.

[–] Val@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That is a fair point. Although there is a point to be made that "the system" is democracy and overthrowing a government that doesn't represent the population is a part of the system. But I agree that most people probably don't think that way.

If you can think of any improvements feel free to make changes and upload your own version.

[–] DessertStorms@kbin.social 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I see what you're saying, and I think it would probably appeal more to those with left leanings who aren't actually anarchists (yet 🤞), because it isn't as big a shock to the system to think about fixing a thing they know vs abolishing that thing and starting something completely unfamiliar and most likely still foreign to them (even as an anarchist, thinking outside of the indoctrination, and constructs I've/we've been socialised with since birth can be a challenge), but then I'm also a big believer in not coddling people in to change - facing and sitting with the discomfort of seeing the box we're kept in and starting to think outside of it is a huge and really important part of unlearning what we know and even how we are, so personally I generally favour blunt and to the point lol

I think having these conversations in the comments can be more helpful than posting an alternative, because the people your meme speaks to can read on and hopefully broaden their views!

[–] Val@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

personally I generally favour blunt and to the point lol

Me too!

I think having these conversations in the comments can be more helpful than posting an alternative, because the people your meme speaks to can read on and hopefully broaden their views!

This should be the goal of this community. To share memes that invite people to discuss them, so the comments can make them think. The meme acts as a gateway to deeper leftist thought in the comments.

[–] Jentu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 4 months ago

Bad cop vs Good cop vs burn the precinct down and protect your own neighborhood.

[–] gramie@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Hopefully good

Polictics

Well, when one of the three words (one of which is a number) in the title is spelled wrong, I'd have to give it a thumbs down.

[–] Val@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Really? a typo and a spelling mistake is your bar for bad content? That seems a bit harsh.

Also this video sums up my feelings about english spelling.

[–] gramie@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that "polictics" is a valid alternative spelling of "politics"? Or that, as in the video, misspellings are not your fault, they're the fault of English?

Perhaps you live in a world where first impressions don't matter, where what you do is not subject to quality control, and attention to detail doesn't matter. Still, is it too much to ask that people pay attention to spell check?

I'm not saying that everyone should be perfect all the time, but gracefully admitting mistakes and being slightly abashed, resolving to do better next time, would be a positive response.

[–] Val@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

"polictics" was a typo. the spelling part was for whatever mistake you found in the title. I should have probably been clearer about that, but I thought the distinction was obvious.

I may have responded a bit too harshly. For me a downvote means "This post is completely trash and should not exist", so to hear that a single typo is enough to invalidate it made me a bit defensive. You are absolutely correct to point it out but I think a downvote is a bit too harsh.

Also I know that's probably not what downvotes mean to you but considering how they affect rankings I see them this way because downvote=less score=less people see=should not be seen.

[–] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 5 points 4 months ago

It's like those websites and applications that ask you:

Hey do you want to turn on this bullshit feature?

[Yes] [Ask me again later]
[–] Neato@ttrpg.network 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How?

[–] Val@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If you don't mind reading there is a lot of more specific questions and answers in this FAQ:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-full

[–] Neato@ttrpg.network 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That's great info and I'll check it out. But I mean in regard to this meme: what do we do now? Because this meme seems to be addressing the 2024 general election in the US and it makes it seem like there's 3 voting options. But to my knowledge, there isn't a popular 3rd party that meets progressive or anarchistic values. So is this suggesting not to vote? Other direct action like a strike? And if so how does that address the issue of the election this brings up?

[–] Val@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The third box is smaller to reflect that it isn't a "real" option. I only added it because I thought only the two wouldn't be fitting for this community (and also complaining without providing an alternative is not useful). It's more of an open question. eg "You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism."

In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 "What do anarchist do instead of voting?" and J.7.4 "What would a social revolution involve?". These might help answer your questions.

In general there is no easy solution. For Americans to fix their system they need to fight for real democracy. I think trying to get rid of FPTP is a good start. However I do not put much faith in any election reform succeeding. My personal (european (although it shouldn't matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.

I made this meme to just point out something I thought a lot about when scrolling through lemmy and that's that voting isn't enough because the best you can do is delay the inevitable. You can vote, but that won't make a meaningful change.

[–] Neato@ttrpg.network 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”

In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?

So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election? Because I feel that's incredibly short-sighted and damaging. I agree with your points of working to get ranked choice voting and other measures passed in all states quickly. But people still need to vote against the obvious fascist candidate in the short term. Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn't do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for. And I'm in a privileged class. Vulnerable people have to do so much more to stay safe and a second Trump presidency will get thousands killed. No one's going to have time to campaign against FPTP when they are organizing just to stay safe from government and militia persecution. If Trump gets elected again, it's pretty much over. And anyone eager for a civil war hasn't looked out enough to see what hell that is.

Anarchist Library: At its most basic, voting implies agreement with the status quo.

This is silly and reductive. Voting is damage control. Not voting is handing one of your only means of change and your voice away to your worst enemies. I'll look into it more, but that's a false premise to start on. It's idealistic to the point of self-destruction.

You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.

Medicine doesn't stop death forever, either. And until we can cure the fascism or put in enough barriers to prevent it, we still must survive in the short term. Diatribe over.

My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.

Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like? Because Americans have all the same communities and groups Europeans do: unions (lesser extent), religious groups, community organizations (school based, local government), LGBT+ organizations, local political orgs, hobby groups, etc. But I don't see how that directly helps matters. They will provide community and potentially safe spaces, but only if they aren't infiltrated. And if there's a fascist government, there likely won't be any groups outside government control. They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don't control. So I guess I don't understand what type of groups you are referring to.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 3 points 4 months ago

Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for.

I think it's worthwhile to point out that keeping yourself aware of what you're organizing against is possibly the bare minimum of organizing.

I'm not advocating for a trump presidency, but I think this gives some credence to what accelerationists are saying

I wish more people who are concerned about the 2024 election would take that anxiety and join progressive groups now, not wait until after the election, because not only do you have the motivation to take action now it's also a good way to push the conversation further left and put pressure on the 2024 candidates. I know my local DSA chapter has seen an uptick in new members, but I am quite certain I see a lot of people on here pulling their hair out over the stress but refusing to join a cause.

If you're spending your time insisting people vote in order to kick the can down the road, then you should also be spending your time organizing for the cause now and not waiting until the crisis is postponed.

[–] Val@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election?

As the meme says voting blue means a 4 year snooze. I am not telling anyone whether they should vote or not. Just pointing out how I see the current election. The points you make are sensible and I think if I were in the USA I would vote because of the reasons you listed.

I'm copying some quotes from the FAQ that I think fit in this conversation.
But considering the state of the US I think that at the moment voting is a useful tactic to buy time for organizing, not a solution.

J.2.8: anarchists don’t just say “don’t vote”, we say “organise” as well.

J2.5 last paragraph: [...] anarchists urge abstentionism in order to encourage activity, not apathy. Not voting is not enough, and anarchists urge people to organise and resist as well.

And when it comes to the last paragraph I must admit I am short of ideas. All of the groups you listed have a chance of helping, organization doesn't need to start with a political group, once you have a group together you can start talking about anarchist organization and see how people react.

As an anarchist I believe that revolution starts with the people. Get enough people together with a common goal (or a shared dream if you want to be poetic) and you will have a revolution. This might seem pointless since you're so small, but every revolution needs to start somewhere. And I believe only a revolution can fix the USA right now.

There are also some anarchist orgs like http://iww.org. I wish I knew more.

They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don't control.

That's why it's important to create these groups now. Once the fascist are in power it's too late.

[–] db0@hachyderm.io 3 points 4 months ago

@Val oh that's a good one!

[–] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What's the third icon?

[–] Val@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Anarchism. But it is meant to signify any kind of leftist ideology. I just chose anarchism.

[–] femtech@midwest.social 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just looks like republicans and not caring at the same time aka Accelerationism.

[–] Val@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not my fault USA decided to use red for the conservatives, even though red as been the socialists' color since we began.

[–] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

The Republicans use Red B/C lots of Lincoln's supporters read Marx.

Then the parties changed.