i've personally (as DM) let players have both a feat and an ASI at the appropriate levels. Honestly doesn't hurt balance that much overall, just makes for slightly more powerful PCs.
this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
25 points (100.0% liked)
D&D Next - 5e Discussion
39 readers
2 users here now
A place to discuss the latest version of Dungeons & Dragons, the fifth edition, known during the playtest as D&D Next.
Join our discord! https://discord.gg/dndnext
-- Rules --
- Be Civil. Unacceptable behavior includes name calling, taunting, baiting, flaming, etc. Please respect the opinions of people who play differently than you do.
- Use Clear, Concise Titles.
- Limit Self-Promotional Links. External links to blogs, kickstarters, storefronts, YouTube channels, etc, must be related to DnD and posted no more than once every 14 days. Affiliate links are never allowed.
This is a new community and the rules are in flux. Please bear with us (and give your feedback!) as we navigate building this new community. Thank you!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I heard one DM say that they let the players choose, either they get to pick a feat, or they pick an ASI and the DM chooses a feat for them. The reason being that it means that the player has the chance to pick one of the big power spike feats (GWM, PAM, Sentinel, War caster) or get an ASI and get something thats not quite as big an impact mechanically, but helps develop the flavor of their character ( think like actor, charger, heavily armored). I haven't tried it, but I want to give it a shot some time.
We got a book off DM's guild several years ago that was something like 'Talents', which were basically like a minor feat. Something like that would be cool to flavor in periodically.
I have one that lets me add my Charisma bonus to smites.
I love the idea!
OP, this is a good homebrew rule to talk to your DM and fellow players about. Some tables prefer to keep it as-is, citing that it picking between the two makes for a meaningful choice. Others, me included, prefer to have their cake and eat it too. It'll make your campaign feel a little bit more high fantasy, with a party of adventurers that all have 20 in their main stats. For many, that's a positive.
If your DM is comfortable adjusting encounters for a party with maxed stats and a couple extra feats, it's (imo) a great rule to run with.
I hate how rarely you get ASI’s and feats. Plus with the reliance on half feats, it’s so much work to figure out what to do. I think that all feats should change to half feats, lose the built in ASI, and then every even level you get a choice of a +1 in a stat of your choice or one of these ASI-less half feats.
I'm not a fan. But I need to stop playing D&D because, among other reasons, I find class+level too coarsely grained. I'd rather be able to spend xp directly on stuff like in cofd, fate, many other games I know less well.
It’s a very anti-fun design decision. But then again, feats are an optional rule for some reason so it would be hard to have it a different way.
The designers are really kidding themselves by calling them optional still.
I have grown to accept +4 as a perfectly cromulant ability modifier and only aim to pop it to +5 if there's no feat that stands out to me so you're not alone. Unless I am a spellcaster, then I ignore feats until I get that sweet sweet 20.
5e is weirdly stingy with ASIs and feats. It is kinda weird
"A 25 in your primary ability by level 20? Nay, this shall not be!"
5e is twice as generous as 3.5 with ASIs where you got 1 point every four levels. This was balanced out by the entire system having a lot more ways to increase your numbers, in the case of ability scores there are a buttload of different magic items that boost them either permanently or while worn (and there's no attunement to limit to how many items you can benefit from though similar sources don't stack benefits). Comparably 3.5 is also more generous with feats, giving them out every three character levels (not class levels) and if you're a fighter your entire class mechanic is literally "get a bonus feat at first level and every even numbered level." But feats in that system are mostly either less effective than 5e counterparts (5e using compressed numbers and bonded accuracy affects this) or being grouped into chains/trees of multiple feats you need to get the best affects. An example is how any specialist archer needs Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite for the more effective ones like Rapid Shot and Precise Shot.
5e is built around the idea of bonded accuracy. In super simplified terms that miss a lot of nuance, this basically means all the numbers are smaller insteqad of tacking on literally seven different modifiers to any given roll so that a mid level character isn't good at something unless they can consistently hit a DC 30 check. This means that that +1 bonus you get to relevant rolls from a +2 ASI makes a BIG difference by comparison. Not all 5e feats are super powerful, but you get ones with multiple effects that in 3.5 would be spread around multiple feats that must be taken separately. Additionally the lower numbers you're using means things like lower AC on monsters so that -5 penalty from Sharpshooter or GWM is often a reasonable risk for the extra damage equal to around twice what you average on your normal damage dice. These are much more powerful effects and as such you get less of them.
I don’t mind having to make “tough choices” in general, only when the obviously correct choice is boring and the suboptimal one is the cool fun one.
This perfectly sums it up. The problem is that increasing your scores needs to be pretty darn strong, strong enough to compete with a feat...but as you said, it's usually pretty boring. A couple of +1s certainly add up and make your character more powerful on average, but a feat that grants entirely new functionality just feels so much more impactful and fun.
I would have preferred them to entirely separate stat growth and feat selection, but the OneDnD method of just making most (all?) feats into "half feats" is acceptable as well.
That's the point. If you want everything right away just start with max level characters. Congratulations, no more leveling up means no more agonizing choices.
And no, having a more powerful character at level X doesn't change this. It just means that either your DM starts throwing comparably more powerful enemies at you or everything gets easier. In the first case you're accomplishing nothing because everybody involved is just adding some extra numbers to their rolls. And if you want everything to be easier you might as well just assume you always succeed on every check and get max damage on every attack. For that matter don't bother even pretending to be interested in dice, begin every combat by just describing how you massacre your foes. Then type up a description of it and you're writing a book instead of actually playing a game.
Cool your jets, I'm not saying anything you're saying I am. I didn't say people should get 100% optimal characters right away. I'm just saying it sucks when the better choice is boring.
Something Something pf2e
Classes? No, GURPS doesn't have classes.
Edit: someone clearly not getting this is a meme
I always have my players take a Feat and ASI at level 4 now. It lets people take fun feats including some power boosting ones while still not making it feel like a bad choice. That way people get to play a feat for the majority of the game instead of only at higher levels
I've had some success in groups with treating every ASI level as '+1 and a feat.' It also encourages looking at half-feats that would otherwise go untouched because they're flavorful but unoptimal, like Actor.
I cant really imagine ever taking an ASI. I'd have to be pretty far into a game and playing a class that gets a LOT of feats. even then those classes kinda suck for class features so...
I feel it provides a decent balance, making you choose between raw ability and specialization
It just sucks when the correct choice is boring and the fun choice is wrong.
Both choices are good, just different paths you can take. It’s like being generally good at making bread or really good at pumpernickel
That is exactly the reason I allways play songle Ability characters. I just dont have room for ASI. All the int increase on my wizard comes from half feats.
Cries in paladin
Yeah, I always find the choice disappointing too.