this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
465 points (100.0% liked)

Memes

1357 readers
11 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I see you moved the goal post to a different field.

If you want to criticize the specifics of Marx/Engels proposals, that is very different than - whether by ignorance or malice - outright lying about them.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't say anything about Marx or Engels. I talked about communism.

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I didn’t say anything about Marx or Engels. I talked about communism.

Oh dear. 🤦🏽

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pick a communist nation, any communist nation

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok, let me spell this out…

  1. Marx and Engels created the concept of Communism. They carefully defined it.

  2. No nation in the history of the world has come close to meeting the criteria/definition of Communism.

  3. You cannot pick a Communist nation because not one has ever existed. Literally. By definition.

A dictator who lies about their dictatorship is still a dictator, just as a wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Since communism has proven to be impossible to implement and every attempt has resulted in brutal authoritarian regimes, we can either say communism is an incoherent mess of a utopian ideology which can't exist, or an ideology that de facto endorses brutal authoritarianism. Dealer's choice

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Other than not understanding how logical fallacies work, you’ve almost got it. Keep at it and I’m sure you’ll get there, eventually.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And there's the smug arrogance

"That's not real communism! Nothing is real communism!" Hahahahahahaha

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Once you’ve read some Marx, Engels, and maybe even Lenin - you can come back here and criticize the actual ideas and arguments behind Communism rather than the completely imaginary ones you’ve blindly accepted from others.

Until then, we really have nothing more to talk about.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I'm less concerned with 100+ year old theory and more concerned with reality

I mean for fascism I'm going to look at Nazi Germany, not look at ideological texts surrounding the ideals of fascists

Reality always beats theory. You refusing to admit that communism is communism does indeed make it so that we don't really have anything to talk about.

load more comments (1 replies)