this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2023
444 points (100.0% liked)
Asklemmy
1454 readers
68 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Especially the lemmy.ml part was kind of terrible, I got into some weird argument with Tiananmen Square massacre deniers and the mods started deleting my comments, so the whole discussion was meaningless and left me very worried for the future of this corner of the fediverse.
While I'm subbed to a few lemmy.ml communities I didn't wanna make an account over there for the same reasons. The general inclination is a bit out of my sphere.
Yikes. Are there people like that in lemmy.ml? Ill need to keep an eye out then. Still not completely found my footing in all this yet. Might watch a video or read something to better understand all this soon.
The history is that Lemmy was originally created as an independent forum for communists. Later, the devs experimented with ActivityPub federation and created the first federated Reddit alternative. The software itself is neutral and can be used by anyone, but the original communist users of Lemmy before federation was implemented are still around. The politics of Lemmy's original community scared off a lot of potential users from exploring federated Reddit, but bringing more users and awareness to Lemmy will also attract politically neutral developers who can maintain a good alternative.
An alternative is not even necessary if the devs are able to leave their ideologies out of the software's design, which I believe they are doing well.
And from what I've seen, the core devs have always supported and encouraged more instances to be created so that there's a diversity of communities ... I don't think want everyone to be just on here (lemmy.ml) and I'd guess they especially don't want to conflicts to erupt over communism (where in the past some facist or neo-nazi brigading happened and that's why sign-ups require approval).
The answer is for some people to get to work and put up new instances. That's what happened at mastodon and it's what allowed the platform to absorb the twitter migration. We really shouldn't expect whole new open-source and free platforms to just be waiting for us to get tired of our corporate for-profit big-social-platforms. It takes a little bit of work from us ... either understanding a little bit about how things work, helping others, engaging, and if we're able, putting up instances, starting communities and contributing back to the source code.
Well, that's just not the case. Lemmy's devs have always been highly ideological. The case in point here is their handling of the slur filter.
The basic guiding principle of GPL software has always been freedom. Free software has always been explicitly political, but when you put out free code, you have to accept that it might be used by people you don't like. Adding DRM, such as the slur filter, is against the freedom and openness of the free software, even if the DRM is so half-assed as a slur filter that any half-competent dev could easily remove.
Didn’t know about this.
But, from the cited comment on GitHub:
Fuck yea! This is awesome. Even if not terribly efficacious (I didn’t look into that).
And just to be clear: I talk about principles of platform and instance diversity … and you counter with ”what about racial slurs”?!
I love when anticommunist concern-trolls step on rakes like that.
Yep. Like there's a good point there from a software standpoint and whether this measure makes sense once the user base and spread of instances and cultures goes past a threshold (especially on the language barrier, but not as persuasively as they think I suspect given the grassroots origin of the software). It's probably at, past or near that threshold now, but similarly with the point at which friendly forks make sense.
But, "lets just resist racism as much as possible even with weird software kludges" being a problematic "ideology" that undercuts any claim to fostering diversity? ... LMFAO!
Maybe put the software freedom and free-speech flags down for a second, look around and touch some grass.
Yeah, since the only true diversity is which particular flavour of a tankie you are.
If you've got a problem, you can just say it directly instead of presenting this non-sequitur like it's an own. If anti-racism is "tankie" to you then I'm a T-90.
I write about principles of free software, and you interpret that as endorsing racist comments?
If you actually cared about diversity, you'd know that many English slurs happen to be the same as other non-offensive non-English words; your particular narrow linguistic and cultural viewpoint isn't the only one that's valid.
They changed the compulsory filter to be optional and configurable by community admins. They haven't implemented compulsory features after that either, so I see it as a mistake they made when they didn't fully understand the principles of federation and still treated Lemmy as a centralized communist forum. We shouldn't hold those mistakes over them if they learned from it and changed.
Yeah, lemmy part of fediverse is full of tankies. There is even a pretty active tankie instance over lemmygrad.ml.
I think it was on the basis of you being personally insulting to the users. The modlog is pretty usable, so you can check why they were deleted
There aren't really as many leftist posts on lemmy.ml from what I can see, but it's federated with lemmygrad.ml, so if your account is on lemmy.ml you see all the posts from there as well. And because they're federated, lemmygrad users can comment on anything on lemmy.ml, so that's where you will see viewpoints come in that you may not agree with in news/politics/economics related threads. I don't know if kbin.social has its instances whitelist & blacklist published anywhere, but there's a pretty good chance you'd know by now if it federated with lemmygrad. You're likely still browsing posts and comment threads on lemmy.ml but aren't seeing comments from the lemmygrad users in those threads.
Oh, and even if they're annoying, I understand how federation works and that users from lemmygrad could comment there etc. and I can handle the shills, what I was surprised about were the mods on lemmy.ml which started deleting my comments. Doing this, they make it impossible for me to even try to engage in a discussion and show a different point of view to the tankies.
As far as I understood, those were people who had accounts on lemmy.ml, not lemmygrad.ml
Oh boy, I didn't think about that. I never thought that lemmy.ml would federate with a cesspool like grad. So yeah, this explains that. That's why I'm seeing so many shills.
We have enough numbers to build a "de facto" second main instance which would be completely split from grad, should we focus on one instance? What if we tried to start an instance from scratch?
You're certainly welcome to build your own instance and choose who and who not to federate with, but if lemmygrad folks specifically are who you're trying to avoid, beehaw might be a good spot for you.